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Pope decrees that the Catholic Church cannot bless same-sex unions because God 'cannot bless sin'
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Miloch
2021-03-15 15:57:26 UTC
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9363495/Pope-decrees-Catholic-Church-bless-sex-unions-God-bless-sin.html

*The Vatican orthodoxy office issued an official verdict on the issue on Monday

*It said gay people should be treated with 'respect' but their unions not
blessed

*Blessing unions would 'approve and encourage' a same-sex lifestyle, it said

The Vatican decreed today that the Catholic Church cannot give its blessing to
same-sex unions because God 'cannot bless sin'.

Pope Francis signed off the two-page ruling which was published in seven
languages by the Vatican's orthodoxy office, the Congregation for the Doctrine
of the Faith.

It called on Catholic clergy to treat gay people with 'respect and sensitivity'
but ruled that blessing their unions would 'approve and encourage a choice and a
way of life that cannot be recognised as objectively ordered to the revealed
plans of God'.

Francis last year caused controversy among Catholics by giving his backing to
civil unions, but has never come out in favour of religious unions.

Monday's decree reiterated the Church's position that marriage between man and a
woman is part of God's plan and is intended for the sake of creating new life.

It acknowledged that the wish to bless same-sex unions is 'not infrequently
motivated by a sincere desire to welcome and accompany homosexual persons'.

But since their unions are not intended as part of God's plan, they cannot
validly be blessed by the church, the document said.

'The presence in such relationships of positive elements, which are in
themselves to be valued and appreciated, cannot justify these relationships and
render them legitimate objects of an ecclesial blessing, since the positive
elements exist within the context of a union not ordered to the Creator's plan,'
the Vatican's ruling said.

God 'does not and cannot bless sin: He blesses sinful man, so that he may
recognise that he is part of his plan of love and allow himself to be changed by
him,' it said.

The document argued that the ruling is 'not intended to be a form of unjust
discrimination, but rather a reminder of the truth of the liturgical rite and of
the very nature of the sacramentals, as the Church understands them'.

The Vatican said Francis was 'informed and gave his assent' to the ruling, which
gave a verdict of 'negative' to the question of whether such unions could be
blessed.

Francis has always opposed gay marriage, but his 2019 comments that 'what we
have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.

The remarks emerged last year in a documentary in which he also said:
'Homosexual people have the right to be in a family... they are children of
God'.

The Vatican played down Francis's remarks at the time, saying they were taken
out of context and referred to his position while he was Archbishop of Buenos
Aires.

But it did not confirm or deny reports that it had ordered the sensitive remarks
to be cut from the Mexican TV interview in which they were initially made in
2019.

Francis's words were hailed by admirers at the time as a 'major step forward in
the church's support for LGBT people'.

However, there was also a chorus of anger from conservative Catholics who said
they 'clearly contradict what has been the long-standing teaching of the
church'.

Catholic teaching holds that gay people should be treated with respect but that
homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered'.

A 2003 document from the Vatican's doctrine office - bearing the stamp of
Francis's two immediate predecessors - said legal approval would mean the
'approval of deviant behaviour'.

'The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way
to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual
unions,' it said.

Francis has frequently said that gay people should be accepted in their parishes
and urged parents not to reject their children.

On his first foreign trip as pope, to Brazil in 2013, he said of gay people
trying to live a Christian life: 'Who am I to judge?'.

Since then, he has ministered to gay people and transgender prostitutes, and
welcomed people in same-sex partnerships into his inner circle.

In 2014, the Vatican denied reports that Francis had endorsed civil unions, and
he took a more conservative tone in a book called On Heaven And Earth.

'Every person needs a male father and a female mother that can help them shape
their identity,' he said in criticism of adoption by gay couples.

He added that laws which equated same-sex relationships to marriages would be
'an anthropological regression'.

Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.

'Marriage is a historic word,' he told French sociologist Dominique Wolton in a
2017 book of interviews. 'Always among human beings, and not only in the Church,
it has been between a man and a woman. You can't just change that like that.'



*
P+Barker
2021-03-15 16:20:14 UTC
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Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Robert
2021-03-15 17:15:42 UTC
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Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....

but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.

The remarks emerged last year in a documentary in which he also said: 'Homosexual people have the right to be in a family... they are children of God'.

The Vatican played down Francis's remarks at the time, saying they were taken out of context and referred to his position while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.

But it did not confirm or deny reports that it had ordered the sensitive remarks to be cut from the Mexican TV interview in which they were initially made in 2019.

Francis's words were hailed by admirers at the time as a 'major step forward in the church's support for LGBT people'.

However, there was also a chorus of anger from conservative Catholics who said they 'clearly contradict what has been the long-standing teaching of the church'.

Catholic teaching holds that gay people should be treated with respect but that homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered'.

A 2003 document from the Vatican's doctrine office - bearing the stamp of Francis's two immediate predecessors - said legal approval would mean the 'approval of deviant behaviour'.

'The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions,' it said.

Francis has frequently said that gay people should be accepted in their parishes and urged parents not to reject their children.

On his first foreign trip as pope, to Brazil in 2013, he said of gay people trying to live a Christian life: 'Who am I to judge?'.

Since then, he has ministered to gay people and transgender prostitutes, and welcomed people in same-sex partnerships into his inner circle.
*****************************

So how do you now account the welcoming of these people to your priesthoods and nuns? Their "marriage to the church"?
Robert
2021-03-16 00:42:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....
but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.
Not really.
If gays want to live in some sort of legal cohabitation, then they
should create a civil law for them to do so.
This cannot be considered a real marriage though.
So you do condone their marriages, eh? Hypocrite
According to you having sex with a whore is fine as long as it is in a legal whorehouse.
Post by Robert
The remarks emerged last year in a documentary in which he also said: 'Homosexual people have the right to be in a family... they are children of God'.
Absolutely.
Wrong, the only people in this world who are children of God are those that are born again.
All people have a right to be in a family.
They do not have a right to marry within the Catholic Church though.
Then what are you know going to do with all those that have been married within the RCC already?
Post by Robert
The Vatican played down Francis's remarks at the time, saying they were taken out of context and referred to his position while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.
Another example of people thinking they know what was said and what
was meant. The pope says all people deserve a chance for salvation to
heaven, They also deserve the right to life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness. However, they do not have the right to marry in the
Catholic Church which does not accept this as a holy covenant.
When what he said was recorded, then typed out an printed for all to read, or in some cases what he spoke publicly for all to hear, then you are most foolish to say that others do not know what he said.
But it did not confirm or deny reports that it had ordered the sensitive remarks to be cut from the Mexican TV interview in which they were initially made in 2019.
So?
Post by Robert
Francis's words were hailed by admirers at the time as a 'major step forward in the church's support for LGBT people'.
His words merely show that he does not hate gays, lesbo's, trannies,
or whatever. This does not mean he "supports" them.
We read or heard his words, you obviously did not, or you just enjoy lying about it to defend the indefensible.
Post by Robert
However, there was also a chorus of anger from conservative Catholics who said they 'clearly contradict what has been the long-standing teaching of the church'.
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
Some bar the practicing homo some don't.
Some of the practicing homo's even dispense the sacraments within the RCC, and their hands re ungloved when they hand you your goodies. Yet you eat it all up.
Post by Robert
Catholic teaching holds that gay people should be treated with respect but that homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered'.
OK then. You are starting to get it now.
I didn't write this, article, I pasted in in from the original post, yet you comment on it all, out of ignorance and poor reading comprehension, very poor.
Post by Robert
A 2003 document from the Vatican's doctrine office - bearing the stamp of Francis's two immediate predecessors - said legal approval would mean the 'approval of deviant behaviour'.
<Yawn> LIAR.
Stupid, I didn't write the article, and yes it is true. And the funny thing is you didn't even comprehend what the sentence above said. :)
Post by Robert
'The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions,' it said.
Francis has frequently said that gay people should be accepted in their parishes and urged parents not to reject their children.
On his first foreign trip as pope, to Brazil in 2013, he said of gay people trying to live a Christian life: 'Who am I to judge?'.
Since then, he has ministered to gay people and transgender prostitutes, and welcomed people in same-sex partnerships into his inner circle.
*****************************
OK.
Post by Robert
So how do you now account the welcoming of these people to your priesthoods and nuns? Their "marriage to the church"?
We do not welcome gays into the priesthood.
In fact we do everything we can to ensure they do not enter the
priesthood. There certainly have been gays who have entered the
clerical state, but they are not "WELCOMED."
Last I heard over 1/3 of them are known homo's, nuns too.
What are you? STupid?
It is obvious from your reply to what was quoted that you are far less than bright, and defend all the ongoing sin in your church.
P+Barker
2021-03-16 05:05:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....
but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.
Not really.
If gays want to live in some sort of legal cohabitation, then they
should create a civil law for them to do so.
This cannot be considered a real marriage though.
So you do condone their marriages, eh? Hypocrite
I acknowlege they feel they need to be cosnidered equal to real
married couples. If they wish to have all the civil benefits of a
marriage, they need legislation to allow this.
Marriage is different from a contract commitment.
I condone their contracts as I condone any contract.
Marriage is different though.
Post by Robert
According to you having sex with a whore is fine as long as it is in a legal whorehouse.
ARE YOU STUPID?
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
The remarks emerged last year in a documentary in which he also said: 'Homosexual people have the right to be in a family... they are children of God'.
Absolutely.
Wrong, the only people in this world who are children of God are those that are born again.
Do you think gays can be born again?

While we are on the subject, do you feel that Muslims can go to
heaven? How about American Indians, Mayans, Aztecs who never got to
know Jesus? What happens to them> Or Jews?
Post by Robert
All people have a right to be in a family.
They do not have a right to marry within the Catholic Church though.
Then what are you know going to do with all those that have been married within the RCC already?
I'll allow Jesus to judge them.
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
The Vatican played down Francis's remarks at the time, saying they were taken out of context and referred to his position while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.
Another example of people thinking they know what was said and what
was meant. The pope says all people deserve a chance for salvation to
heaven, They also deserve the right to life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness. However, they do not have the right to marry in the
Catholic Church which does not accept this as a holy covenant.
When what he said was recorded, then typed out an printed for all to read, or in some cases what he spoke publicly for all to hear, then you are most foolish to say that others do not know what he said.
I know exactly what he said.
He said he is not here to judge others.
He is here to spread the Good News of Jesus.
To one and all.
Post by Robert
But it did not confirm or deny reports that it had ordered the sensitive remarks to be cut from the Mexican TV interview in which they were initially made in 2019.
So?
Post by Robert
Francis's words were hailed by admirers at the time as a 'major step forward in the church's support for LGBT people'.
His words merely show that he does not hate gays, lesbo's, trannies,
or whatever. This does not mean he "supports" them.
We read or heard his words, you obviously did not, or you just enjoy lying about it to defend the indefensible.
What exactly did he say?

According to the best current accounts, he said:

There's a lot of talk about the gay lobby, but I've never seen it on
the Vatican ID card.

When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being
gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have
goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn't be marginalized. The
tendency [i.e., same-sex attraction] is not the problem ... they're
our brothers.

UPDATE: Here is a fuller presentation of the exchange. Big hat tip to
Salt and Light!

The Question to Pope Francis from Ilse, a journalist on the Papal
flight

Ilse: I would like to ask permission to pose a rather delicate
question. Another image that went around the world is that of
Monsignor Ricca and the news about his personal life. I would like to
know, your Holiness, what will be done about this question. How
should one deal with this question and how does your Holiness wish to
deal with the whole question of the gay lobby?

The Pope’s Answer

Regarding the matter of Monsignor Ricca, I did what Canon Law required
and did the required investigation. And from the investigation, we
did not find anything corresponding to the accusations against him. We
found none of that. That is the answer. But I would like to add one
more thing to this: I see that so many times in the Church, apart from
this case and also in this case, one looks for the “sins of youth,”
for example, is it not thus?, And then these things are published.
These things are not crimes. The crimes are something else: child
abuse is a crime. But sins, if a person, or secular priest or a nun,
has committed a sin and then that person experienced conversion, the
Lord forgives and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets and this is
very important for our lives. When we go to confession and we truly
say “I have sinned in this matter,” the Lord forgets and we do not
have the right to not forget because we run the risk that the Lord
will not forget our sins, eh? This is a danger. This is what is
important: a theology of sin. So many times I think of St. Peter: he
committed one of the worst sins denying Christ. And with this sin
they made him Pope. We must think about fact often.

But returning to your question more concretely: in this case [Ricca] I
did the required investigation and we found nothing. That is the
first question. Then you spoke of the gay lobby. Agh… so much is
written about the gay lobby. I have yet to find on a Vatican identity
card the word gay. They say there are some gay people here. I think
that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction
between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby,
because lobbies are not good. They are bad. If a person is gay and
seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge that person? The
Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this point beautifully but
says, wait a moment, how does it say, it says, these persons must
never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.”

The problem is not that one has this tendency; no, we must be
brothers, this is the first matter. There is another problem, another
one: the problem is to form a lobby of those who have this tendency, a
lobby of the greedy people, a lobby of politicians, a lobby of Masons,
so many lobbies. This is the most serious problem for me. And thank
you so much for doing this question. Thank you very much!
https://www.ncregister.com/blog/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-what-pope-francis-said-about-gays?amp&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ncrtraffic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkdGt74K07wIVBdvACh2_JgHhEAAYASAAEgKxCfD_BwE
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
However, there was also a chorus of anger from conservative Catholics who said they 'clearly contradict what has been the long-standing teaching of the church'.
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
Some bar the practicing homo some don't.
A "practicing" homo is a sinner and does not deserve to receive the
Sacraments inside the church.
The Holy Eucharist is the most important of the seven sacraments
because, in this and in no other sacrament, we receive the very body
and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Innumerable, precious
graces come to us through the reception of Holy Communion.

Holy Communion is an intimate encounter with Christ, in which we
sacramentally receive Christ into our bodies, that we may be more
completely assimilated into his. “The Eucharist builds the Church,” as
Pope John Paul II said (Redemptor Hominis 20). It deepens unity with
the Church, more fully assimilating us into Christ (1 Cor. 12:13; CCC
1396).

The Catholic Church sets out specific guidelines regarding how we
should prepare ourselves to receive the Lord’s body and blood in
Communion. First, you must be in a state of grace. “Whoever,
therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy
manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let
a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup”
(1 Cor. 11:27–28). This is an absolute requirement that can never be
dispensed. To receive the Eucharist without sanctifying grace in your
soul profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner.

Do you feel you can judge a person who is a sinner?
(Rhetorical.) You do it all the time.
Post by Robert
Some of the practicing homo's even dispense the sacraments within the RCC, and their hands re ungloved when they hand you your goodies. Yet you eat it all up.
Perhaps you can point them out to me....
Of course I admit there might be homosexuals who might be priests.
But are they chaste? Do they actually sin all the time.
We love the sinner, hate the sin.
Get over it.
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Catholic teaching holds that gay people should be treated with respect but that homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered'.
OK then. You are starting to get it now.
I didn't write this, article, I pasted in in from the original post, yet you comment on it all, out of ignorance and poor reading comprehension, very poor.
If you post something that you do not believe, then you should
immediately say so. Otherwise you are being dishonest.
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
A 2003 document from the Vatican's doctrine office - bearing the stamp of Francis's two immediate predecessors - said legal approval would mean the 'approval of deviant behaviour'.
<Yawn> LIAR.
Stupid, I didn't write the article, and yes it is true. And the funny thing is you didn't even comprehend what the sentence above said. :)
If you post something that you do not believe, then you should
immediately say so. Otherwise you are being dishonest.
If you post something that you do not believe, then you should
immediately say so. Otherwise you are being dishonest.
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
'The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions,' it said.
Francis has frequently said that gay people should be accepted in their parishes and urged parents not to reject their children.
On his first foreign trip as pope, to Brazil in 2013, he said of gay people trying to live a Christian life: 'Who am I to judge?'.
Since then, he has ministered to gay people and transgender prostitutes, and welcomed people in same-sex partnerships into his inner circle.
*****************************
OK.
Post by Robert
So how do you now account the welcoming of these people to your priesthoods and nuns? Their "marriage to the church"?
We do not welcome gays into the priesthood.
In fact we do everything we can to ensure they do not enter the
priesthood. There certainly have been gays who have entered the
clerical state, but they are not "WELCOMED."
Last I heard over 1/3 of them are known homo's, nuns too.
Prove it.
Robert
2021-03-16 07:50:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....
but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.
Not really.
If gays want to live in some sort of legal cohabitation, then they
should create a civil law for them to do so.
This cannot be considered a real marriage though.
So you do condone their marriages, eh? Hypocrite
I acknowlege they feel they need to be cosnidered equal to real
married couples. If they wish to have all the civil benefits of a
marriage, they need legislation to allow this.
Marriage is different from a contract commitment.
I condone their contracts as I condone any contract.
Marriage is different though.
Then you do not understand the reason why God is so vehemently opposed to homosexuality. Even to the effeminate male. You show no respect of Gods words, and are equal to all those that try and find a work a round for homo's and enabling them to life a lifestyle directly opposed to the plans an purposes for God.
Post by P+Barker
According to you having sex with a whore is fine as long as it is in a legal whorehouse.
ARE YOU STUPID?
Not one bit. That is the logic you used to support homosexuality.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
The remarks emerged last year in a documentary in which he also said: 'Homosexual people have the right to be in a family... they are children of God'.
Absolutely.
Wrong, the only people in this world who are children of God are those that are born again.
Do you think gays can be born again?
Yes, if they like all other people repent of their sin. And never return to it.
Post by P+Barker
While we are on the subject, do you feel that Muslims can go to
heaven? How about American Indians, Mayans, Aztecs who never got to
know Jesus? What happens to them> Or Jews?
Anyone can if they renounce all their evil ways and choose Jesus Christ as their savior, God, and soon coming King. Sinners are sinners, and Jesus died for all sinners, even if they are Barkers.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
All people have a right to be in a family.
They do not have a right to marry within the Catholic Church though.
Then what are you know going to do with all those that have been married within the RCC already?
I'll allow Jesus to judge them.
They already are judged.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
The Vatican played down Francis's remarks at the time, saying they were taken out of context and referred to his position while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.
Another example of people thinking they know what was said and what
was meant. The pope says all people deserve a chance for salvation to
heaven, They also deserve the right to life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness. However, they do not have the right to marry in the
Catholic Church which does not accept this as a holy covenant.
When what he said was recorded, then typed out an printed for all to read, or in some cases what he spoke publicly for all to hear, then you are most foolish to say that others do not know what he said.
I know exactly what he said.
He said he is not here to judge others.
He is here to spread the Good News of Jesus.
To one and all.
You do not know, you spent all this time arguing with me about what the pope said and did when it is all in the historical records.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
But it did not confirm or deny reports that it had ordered the sensitive remarks to be cut from the Mexican TV interview in which they were initially made in 2019.
So?
Post by Robert
Francis's words were hailed by admirers at the time as a 'major step forward in the church's support for LGBT people'.
His words merely show that he does not hate gays, lesbo's, trannies,
or whatever. This does not mean he "supports" them.
We read or heard his words, you obviously did not, or you just enjoy lying about it to defend the indefensible.
What exactly did he say?
Read the article in full, and see. I only pasted a small potion of it.
Post by P+Barker
There's a lot of talk about the gay lobby, but I've never seen it on
the Vatican ID card.
When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being
gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have
goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn't be marginalized. The
tendency [i.e., same-sex attraction] is not the problem ... they're
our brothers.
Not if they continue to live in that lifestyle.
Post by P+Barker
UPDATE: Here is a fuller presentation of the exchange. Big hat tip to
Salt and Light!
The Question to Pope Francis from Ilse, a journalist on the Papal
flight
Ilse: I would like to ask permission to pose a rather delicate
question. Another image that went around the world is that of
Monsignor Ricca and the news about his personal life. I would like to
know, your Holiness, what will be done about this question. How
should one deal with this question and how does your Holiness wish to
deal with the whole question of the gay lobby?
The Pope’s Answer
Regarding the matter of Monsignor Ricca, I did what Canon Law required
and did the required investigation. And from the investigation, we
did not find anything corresponding to the accusations against him. We
found none of that. That is the answer. But I would like to add one
more thing to this: I see that so many times in the Church, apart from
this case and also in this case, one looks for the “sins of youth,”
for example, is it not thus?, And then these things are published.
These things are not crimes. The crimes are something else: child
abuse is a crime. But sins, if a person, or secular priest or a nun,
has committed a sin and then that person experienced conversion, the
Lord forgives and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets and this is
very important for our lives. When we go to confession and we truly
say “I have sinned in this matter,” the Lord forgets and we do not
have the right to not forget because we run the risk that the Lord
will not forget our sins, eh? This is a danger. This is what is
important: a theology of sin. So many times I think of St. Peter: he
committed one of the worst sins denying Christ. And with this sin
they made him Pope. We must think about fact often.
Anyone can confess a sin, any sin. So what? If they do not repent and turn away from it, then what good is being honest about being a sinner? Nothing. It is no different than the whore who goes to confession, and returns to her whoredoms after church or on Monday. Same with your sins, especially if you are not Born Again and therefore no a child of God.
Post by P+Barker
But returning to your question more concretely: in this case [Ricca] I
did the required investigation and we found nothing. That is the
first question. Then you spoke of the gay lobby. Agh… so much is
written about the gay lobby. I have yet to find on a Vatican identity
card the word gay. They say there are some gay people here. I think
that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction
between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby,
because lobbies are not good. They are bad. If a person is gay and
seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge that person? The
Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this point beautifully but
says, wait a moment, how does it say, it says, these persons must
never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.”
See, that is his usual way of double speak. He knows the gullible with believe the crumbs he tosses out for them, while he pacifies his queer friends.
Post by P+Barker
The problem is not that one has this tendency; no, we must be
brothers, this is the first matter. There is another problem, another
one: the problem is to form a lobby of those who have this tendency, a
lobby of the greedy people, a lobby of politicians, a lobby of Masons,
so many lobbies. This is the most serious problem for me. And thank
you so much for doing this question. Thank you very much!
https://www.ncregister.com/blog/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-what-pope-francis-said-about-gays?amp&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ncrtraffic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkdGt74K07wIVBdvACh2_JgHhEAAYASAAEgKxCfD_BwE
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
However, there was also a chorus of anger from conservative Catholics who said they 'clearly contradict what has been the long-standing teaching of the church'.
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
Some bar the practicing homo some don't.
A "practicing" homo is a sinner and does not deserve to receive the
Sacraments inside the church.
The Holy Eucharist is the most important of the seven sacraments
because, in this and in no other sacrament, we receive the very body
and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Innumerable, precious
graces come to us through the reception of Holy Communion.
Holy Communion is an intimate encounter with Christ, in which we
sacramentally receive Christ into our bodies, that we may be more
completely assimilated into his. “The Eucharist builds the Church,” as
Pope John Paul II said (Redemptor Hominis 20). It deepens unity with
the Church, more fully assimilating us into Christ (1 Cor. 12:13; CCC
1396).
A distortion of what 1 for 12:13 means in context. As "we" specifically speaks to those that are born again. Not those that are members of any religion.
Post by P+Barker
The Catholic Church sets out specific guidelines regarding how we
should prepare ourselves to receive the Lord’s body and blood in
Communion. First, you must be in a state of grace. “Whoever,
therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy
manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let
a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup”
(1 Cor. 11:27–28). This is an absolute requirement that can never be
dispensed. To receive the Eucharist without sanctifying grace in your
soul profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner.
I would love to share what this actually means for your benefit. But you don't even know what this means according to the RCC. I have spoken in regards to this passage many times here, and to you in particular. The last sentence above condemns you, even in the RC sense. And you know for a fact that you have no "sanctifying grace in your soul" and so you profane what you believe in the post previous of matters. You can bluster all you want, but sadly you know down deep inside that this is true for you.
Post by P+Barker
Do you feel you can judge a person who is a sinner?
(Rhetorical.) You do it all the time.
Post by Robert
Some of the practicing homo's even dispense the sacraments within the RCC, and their hands re ungloved when they hand you your goodies. Yet you eat it all up.
Perhaps you can point them out to me....
Why? You just stated that the Pope said it was ok.
Post by P+Barker
Of course I admit there might be homosexuals who might be priests.
But are they chaste? Do they actually sin all the time.
We love the sinner, hate the sin.
Get over it.
Yes, you kiss them without shame.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Catholic teaching holds that gay people should be treated with respect but that homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered'.
OK then. You are starting to get it now.
I didn't write this, article, I pasted in in from the original post, yet you comment on it all, out of ignorance and poor reading comprehension, very poor.
If you post something that you do not believe, then you should
immediately say so. Otherwise you are being dishonest.
I do not post things I do not believe as if I did.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
A 2003 document from the Vatican's doctrine office - bearing the stamp of Francis's two immediate predecessors - said legal approval would mean the 'approval of deviant behaviour'.
<Yawn> LIAR.
Stupid, I didn't write the article, and yes it is true. And the funny thing is you didn't even comprehend what the sentence above said. :)
If you post something that you do not believe, then you should
immediately say so. Otherwise you are being dishonest.
If you post something that you do not believe, then you should
immediately say so. Otherwise you are being dishonest.
It was part of the article, I did not write the article. I told you that the article bore out all the things I have been telling you for years. That you cannot fathom that is to show the state of your mind.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
'The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions,' it said.
Francis has frequently said that gay people should be accepted in their parishes and urged parents not to reject their children.
On his first foreign trip as pope, to Brazil in 2013, he said of gay people trying to live a Christian life: 'Who am I to judge?'.
Since then, he has ministered to gay people and transgender prostitutes, and welcomed people in same-sex partnerships into his inner circle.
*****************************
OK.
Post by Robert
So how do you now account the welcoming of these people to your priesthoods and nuns? Their "marriage to the church"?
We do not welcome gays into the priesthood.
In fact we do everything we can to ensure they do not enter the
priesthood. There certainly have been gays who have entered the
clerical state, but they are not "WELCOMED."
Last I heard over 1/3 of them are known homo's, nuns too.
Prove it.
Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist and former priest, has studied celibacy, chastity, and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic. He once estimated that 30%of the priesthood is homosexually oriented.5Elsewhere, he is quoted as estimating that between 25% and 45% of American priests are homosexual in orientation.6

He told the Boston Globe...:"If they were to eliminate all those who were homosexually oriented, the number would be so staggering that it would be like an atomic bomb; it would do the same damage to the church's operation...It would mean the resignation of at least a third of the bishops of the world. And it's very much against the tradition of the church; many saints had a gay orientation, and many popes had gay orientations. Discriminating against orientation is not going to solve the problem."
P+Barker
2021-03-16 12:22:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....
but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.
Not really.
If gays want to live in some sort of legal cohabitation, then they
should create a civil law for them to do so.
This cannot be considered a real marriage though.
So you do condone their marriages, eh? Hypocrite
I acknowlege they feel they need to be cosnidered equal to real
married couples. If they wish to have all the civil benefits of a
marriage, they need legislation to allow this.
Marriage is different from a contract commitment.
I condone their contracts as I condone any contract.
Marriage is different though.
Then you do not understand the reason why God is so vehemently opposed to homosexuality. Even to the effeminate male.
If God is opposed, why did He make homosexuals then?
Post by Robert
You show no respect of Gods words, and are equal to all those that try and find a work a round for homo's and enabling them to life a lifestyle directly opposed to the plans an purposes for God.
Shaddup. Love the sinner. Hate the sin.
Why did Jesus speak with the Centurian, the Samaritan woman, the
pharisses? I didn't hear you... Does Jesus have no respect for God?
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
According to you having sex with a whore is fine as long as it is in a legal whorehouse.
ARE YOU STUPID?
Not one bit. That is the logic you used to support homosexuality.
You are stupid.
Love the sinner. Hate the sin.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
The remarks emerged last year in a documentary in which he also said: 'Homosexual people have the right to be in a family... they are children of God'.
Absolutely.
Wrong, the only people in this world who are children of God are those that are born again.
Do you think gays can be born again?
Yes, if they like all other people repent of their sin. And never return to it.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.
As you said above: "You show no respect of Gods words, and are equal
to all those that try and find a work a round for homo's and enabling
them to life a lifestyle directly opposed to the plans an purposes for
God." These are your words.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
While we are on the subject, do you feel that Muslims can go to
heaven? How about American Indians, Mayans, Aztecs who never got to
know Jesus? What happens to them> Or Jews?
Anyone can if they renounce all their evil ways and choose Jesus Christ as their savior, God, and soon coming King. Sinners are sinners, and Jesus died for all sinners, even if they are Barkers.
Do you feel better now?
If someone never knew Jesus, he is bound for hell then?
Moses? Elijah? Abraham? David? Isiah?
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
All people have a right to be in a family.
They do not have a right to marry within the Catholic Church though.
Then what are you know going to do with all those that have been married within the RCC already?
I'll allow Jesus to judge them.
They already are judged.
according to the prophet wannabe robt......
Judgement Day comes after we die, robt.
Belief in the Last Judgment (often linked with the General judgment)
is held firmly in Catholicism. Immediately upon death each person
undergoes the particular judgment, and depending upon one's behavior
on earth, goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell. ... Before the Last
Judgment, all will be resurrected.

n his homily, Francis noted how Jesus had to make choices, from
calling the first disciples, to the sick whom he cured.
People listened to Jesus because “he spoke as one who had authority,
not like the doctors of the law, who strutted around” flaunting their
knowledge, he said.

Pope Francis was speaking directly to YOU.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
The Vatican played down Francis's remarks at the time, saying they were taken out of context and referred to his position while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.
Another example of people thinking they know what was said and what
was meant. The pope says all people deserve a chance for salvation to
heaven, They also deserve the right to life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness. However, they do not have the right to marry in the
Catholic Church which does not accept this as a holy covenant.
When what he said was recorded, then typed out an printed for all to read, or in some cases what he spoke publicly for all to hear, then you are most foolish to say that others do not know what he said.
I know exactly what he said.
He said he is not here to judge others.
He is here to spread the Good News of Jesus.
To one and all.
You do not know, you spent all this time arguing with me about what the pope said and did when it is all in the historical records.
And I posted the real quotes to you.
Stop playing liberal talking head and making up your own crap.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
But it did not confirm or deny reports that it had ordered the sensitive remarks to be cut from the Mexican TV interview in which they were initially made in 2019.
So?
Post by Robert
Francis's words were hailed by admirers at the time as a 'major step forward in the church's support for LGBT people'.
His words merely show that he does not hate gays, lesbo's, trannies,
or whatever. This does not mean he "supports" them.
We read or heard his words, you obviously did not, or you just enjoy lying about it to defend the indefensible.
What exactly did he say?
Read the article in full, and see. I only pasted a small potion of it.
I did.
Why didn't you?
Plus, try to remember that Francis spoke in Italian, and his words
were translated into English - not always a perfect match.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
There's a lot of talk about the gay lobby, but I've never seen it on
the Vatican ID card.
When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being
gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have
goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn't be marginalized. The
tendency [i.e., same-sex attraction] is not the problem ... they're
our brothers.
Not if they continue to live in that lifestyle.
Why would they if (as the pope said): they accept the Lord and have
goodwill. Read the words again.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
UPDATE: Here is a fuller presentation of the exchange. Big hat tip to
Salt and Light!
The Question to Pope Francis from Ilse, a journalist on the Papal
flight
Ilse: I would like to ask permission to pose a rather delicate
question. Another image that went around the world is that of
Monsignor Ricca and the news about his personal life. I would like to
know, your Holiness, what will be done about this question. How
should one deal with this question and how does your Holiness wish to
deal with the whole question of the gay lobby?
The Pope’s Answer
Regarding the matter of Monsignor Ricca, I did what Canon Law required
and did the required investigation. And from the investigation, we
did not find anything corresponding to the accusations against him. We
found none of that. That is the answer. But I would like to add one
more thing to this: I see that so many times in the Church, apart from
this case and also in this case, one looks for the “sins of youth,”
for example, is it not thus?, And then these things are published.
These things are not crimes. The crimes are something else: child
abuse is a crime. But sins, if a person, or secular priest or a nun,
has committed a sin and then that person experienced conversion, the
Lord forgives and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets and this is
very important for our lives. When we go to confession and we truly
say “I have sinned in this matter,” the Lord forgets and we do not
have the right to not forget because we run the risk that the Lord
will not forget our sins, eh? This is a danger. This is what is
important: a theology of sin. So many times I think of St. Peter: he
committed one of the worst sins denying Christ. And with this sin
they made him Pope. We must think about fact often.
Anyone can confess a sin, any sin. So what?
You refuse to.
You claim you are unable to sin.
Get over this silly obstacle.
Post by Robert
If they do not repent and turn away from it, then what good is being honest about being a sinner? Nothing. It is no different than the whore who goes to confession, and returns to her whoredoms after church or on Monday.
Same with your sins, especially if you are not Born Again and therefore no a child of God.
But... then... you claim if you are born again, you will never sin
again. Isn't that right?
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
But returning to your question more concretely: in this case [Ricca] I
did the required investigation and we found nothing. That is the
first question. Then you spoke of the gay lobby. Agh… so much is
written about the gay lobby. I have yet to find on a Vatican identity
card the word gay. They say there are some gay people here. I think
that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction
between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby,
because lobbies are not good. They are bad. If a person is gay and
seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge that person? The
Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this point beautifully but
says, wait a moment, how does it say, it says, these persons must
never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.”
See, that is his usual way of double speak. He knows the gullible with believe the crumbs he tosses out for them, while he pacifies his queer friends.
The pope does not hate people.
Catholics invite everyone to come into the light.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
A "practicing" homo is a sinner and does not deserve to receive the
Sacraments inside the church.
The Holy Eucharist is the most important of the seven sacraments
because, in this and in no other sacrament, we receive the very body
and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Innumerable, precious
graces come to us through the reception of Holy Communion.
Holy Communion is an intimate encounter with Christ, in which we
sacramentally receive Christ into our bodies, that we may be more
completely assimilated into his. “The Eucharist builds the Church,” as
Pope John Paul II said (Redemptor Hominis 20). It deepens unity with
the Church, more fully assimilating us into Christ (1 Cor. 12:13; CCC
1396).
A distortion of what 1 for 12:13 means in context. As "we" specifically speaks to those that are born again. Not those that are members of any religion.
We do not distort.
That is your habit.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
The Catholic Church sets out specific guidelines regarding how we
should prepare ourselves to receive the Lord’s body and blood in
Communion. First, you must be in a state of grace. “Whoever,
therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy
manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let
a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup”
(1 Cor. 11:27–28). This is an absolute requirement that can never be
dispensed. To receive the Eucharist without sanctifying grace in your
soul profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner.
I would love to share what this actually means for your benefit. But you don't even know what this means according to the RCC.
I have spoken in regards to this passage many times here, and to you in particular. The last sentence above condemns you, even in the RC sense.
And you know for a fact that you have no "sanctifying grace in your soul" and so you profane what you believe in the post previous of matters. You can bluster all you want, but sadly you know down deep inside that this is true for you.
Share your thoughts.
I love non-christians telling me what I should believe.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Do you feel you can judge a person who is a sinner?
(Rhetorical.) You do it all the time.
Post by Robert
Some of the practicing homo's even dispense the sacraments within the RCC, and their hands re ungloved when they hand you your goodies. Yet you eat it all up.
Perhaps you can point them out to me....
Why? You just stated that the Pope said it was ok.
No, I did not.
That was your lips moving.

Let us take another silly example.
According to the law, you must have a drivers license, registration,
and insurance to drive your car on the public roadways.
If you are missing one of those, you are breaking the law.

In order to receive the Eucharist during Mass, you should be baptised,
be a practicing Catholic, and be prepared to receive our Lord, Jesus.
If you are missing one of those, you are sinning against God.

Of course there are many people who drive - it is not impossible.
Of course some people receive Communion when they should not.
Each person is responsible for his own actions.
Catholics want the responsible authority to address trespasses.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Of course I admit there might be homosexuals who might be priests.
But are they chaste? Do they actually sin all the time.
We love the sinner, hate the sin.
Get over it.
Yes, you kiss them without shame.
Why did you feel you had a need to say this?
Does Jesus approve of your insults to me?
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Catholic teaching holds that gay people should be treated with respect but that homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered'.
OK then. You are starting to get it now.
I didn't write this, article, I pasted in in from the original post, yet you comment on it all, out of ignorance and poor reading comprehension, very poor.
If you post something that you do not believe, then you should
immediately say so. Otherwise you are being dishonest.
I do not post things I do not believe as if I did.
Do you believe I kiss gay priests?
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
We do not welcome gays into the priesthood.
In fact we do everything we can to ensure they do not enter the
priesthood. There certainly have been gays who have entered the
clerical state, but they are not "WELCOMED."
Last I heard over 1/3 of them are known homo's, nuns too.
Prove it.
Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist and former priest, has studied celibacy, chastity, and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic.
Richard Sipe is a homosexual who wants others to be lumped into his
little group so that he can claim that he is just like the others.
Well, Uncle Jimmy smokes. Why can't I?
Post by Robert
He once estimated that 30%of the priesthood is homosexually oriented.5Elsewhere, he is quoted as estimating that between 25% and 45% of American priests are homosexual in orientation.6
Richard Sipe is a homosexual who wants others to be lumped into his
little group so that he can claim that he is just like the others.
Well, Uncle Jimmy smokes. Why can't I?


The psychotherapist (Sipe) also wrote various articles and books on
celibacy and sexuality and spoke around the world about the subject.
He served as a source for various media inquiries including that of
The Boston Globe staff as it reported in 2002 on the mishandling of
clergy accused of abuse in the Archdiocese of Boston.

There wasn't a court appearance that he would turn down. He loved to
travel first class, write his books, and testify against the church.
He is also dead. Remember: A broken clock is correct twice a day.
Robert
2021-03-16 17:30:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....
but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.
Not really.
If gays want to live in some sort of legal cohabitation, then they
should create a civil law for them to do so.
This cannot be considered a real marriage though.
So you do condone their marriages, eh? Hypocrite
I acknowlege they feel they need to be cosnidered equal to real
married couples. If they wish to have all the civil benefits of a
marriage, they need legislation to allow this.
Marriage is different from a contract commitment.
I condone their contracts as I condone any contract.
Marriage is different though.
Then you do not understand the reason why God is so vehemently opposed to homosexuality. Even to the effeminate male.
If God is opposed, why did He make homosexuals then?
He didn't, Satan did. Just like the devil the destroyer who is the cause of sickness and disease of all types. It is all a result of sin in this world.

If God created them then God would be a hypocrite of the highest order for unequivocally condemning them. And he obviously is not.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
You show no respect of Gods words, and are equal to all those that try and find a work a round for homo's and enabling them to life a lifestyle directly opposed to the plans an purposes for God.
Shaddup. Love the sinner. Hate the sin.
Why did Jesus speak with the Centurian, the Samaritan woman, the
pharisses? I didn't hear you... Does Jesus have no respect for God?
Telling me to shut up will not excuse away your lack of respect for Gods words. While God has shed abroad his love for the sinner and has provided a way of escape from sin to them, he does not love sinners. He does not hear their prayers, and they get the overflow of the blessings he sends upon the righteous ones. God destroyed the lands of sinners many times when their wickedness surpassed the limits he would allow. There is also a judgment coming to this earth and we are in the beginnings of sorrows right now. World wide. This country, the USA has the blood of millions of babies on its hands, and part of what we are now going through is a result of that. He has throughout history destroyed nations who sacrificed their babies to their gods, and in America that god they sacrifice to is Self.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
According to you having sex with a whore is fine as long as it is in a legal whorehouse.
ARE YOU STUPID?
Not one bit. That is the logic you used to support homosexuality.
You are stupid.
Love the sinner. Hate the sin.
But you support the sin, you allow it by providing a way of life for it outside the RCC as far as marriage goes. You say that God created them that way, you think they should have the freedom to live openly the homosexual way of life. You condone what God hates. You condone the sin, and as such are a hypocrite of the highest order. You even make excuses for them being the leaders in your church which has a history of over 1,000 years of condoning such things, including Popes being active homosexuals, and some dying in the act of it.
Post by P+Barker
The remarks emerged last year in a documentary in which he also said: 'Homosexual people have the right to be in a family... they are children of God'.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Absolutely.
Wrong, the only people in this world who are children of God are those that are born again.
Do you think gays can be born again?
Yes, if they like all other people repent of their sin. And never return to it.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.
As you said above: "You show no respect of Gods words, and are equal
to all those that try and find a work a round for homo's and enabling
them to life a lifestyle directly opposed to the plans an purposes for
God." These are your words.
Yes, I did, and meant every word of it.
If a sinner repents of the sin and no longer participates in it and have been born again, then that sin is erased from their life, never to be remembered by God, ever. Same with any other sin done by mankind. He forgives and forgets. Now Satan doesn't forget, and he will torment many with their thoughts and self condemnation, but God does not due that. So the forgiven sinner needs to understand where the accusation is coming from and condemn the thoughts of Satan and take authority over them as they have been freed from it.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
While we are on the subject, do you feel that Muslims can go to
heaven? How about American Indians, Mayans, Aztecs who never got to
know Jesus? What happens to them> Or Jews?
Anyone can if they renounce all their evil ways and choose Jesus Christ as their savior, God, and soon coming King. Sinners are sinners, and Jesus died for all sinners, even if they are Barkers.
Do you feel better now?
If someone never knew Jesus, he is bound for hell then?
Moses? Elijah? Abraham? David? Isiah?
The Jews had a covenant from God, they were a people set aside from the world as long as they followed the covenant. Abraham was not under that covenant, but he lived by faith in God and was considered perfect before him. He, like the believer had a relationship with God. Not as good as the one we can have, but we have it because of Christ. Remember me showing you from scripture that the least in the kingdom of God is superior to all the prophets of old? That is why by faith we can move mountains.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
All people have a right to be in a family.
They do not have a right to marry within the Catholic Church though.
Then what are you know going to do with all those that have been married within the RCC already?
I'll allow Jesus to judge them.
They already are judged.
according to the prophet wannabe robt......
Thus sayest the Lord,...
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."Joh 3:18 (KJV)
Post by P+Barker
Judgement Day comes after we die, robt.
Final judgement. At the end of the rule of Christ. The believer has already been forgiven as long as they walk by faith and they are the righteousness of God in Christ.
Post by P+Barker
Belief in the Last Judgment (often linked with the General judgment)
is held firmly in Catholicism. Immediately upon death each person
undergoes the particular judgment, and depending upon one's behavior
on earth, goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell. ... Before the Last
Judgment, all will be resurrected.
That is their doctrine, and only their doctrine. It is not of God. Before that last judgment I will already have been in heaven for a minimum of Seven years. We will come back to earth to rule and reign with Jesus Christ. Gods doctrine. The sinner is already condemned and is awaiting in hell the final judgment for the sins they committed.
Post by P+Barker
n his homily, Francis noted how Jesus had to make choices, from
calling the first disciples, to the sick whom he cured.
People listened to Jesus because “he spoke as one who had authority,
not like the doctors of the law, who strutted around” flaunting their
knowledge, he said.
Pope Francis was speaking directly to YOU.
He speaks not to me, but to the RC. Jesus did not speak to those whose hearts were hardened against him, once they exhibited that action. Pope Francis is not of God. Had he have been he would have caused child molestation to cease immediately, and with harsh judgment on all who do so.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
The Vatican played down Francis's remarks at the time, saying they were taken out of context and referred to his position while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.
Another example of people thinking they know what was said and what
was meant. The pope says all people deserve a chance for salvation to
heaven, They also deserve the right to life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness. However, they do not have the right to marry in the
Catholic Church which does not accept this as a holy covenant.
When what he said was recorded, then typed out an printed for all to read, or in some cases what he spoke publicly for all to hear, then you are most foolish to say that others do not know what he said.
I know exactly what he said.
He said he is not here to judge others.
He is here to spread the Good News of Jesus.
To one and all.
You do not know, you spent all this time arguing with me about what the pope said and did when it is all in the historical records.
And I posted the real quotes to you.
No, you didn't.
Post by P+Barker
Stop playing liberal talking head and making up your own crap.
Stop denying the truth.
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Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
But it did not confirm or deny reports that it had ordered the sensitive remarks to be cut from the Mexican TV interview in which they were initially made in 2019.
So?
Post by Robert
Francis's words were hailed by admirers at the time as a 'major step forward in the church's support for LGBT people'.
His words merely show that he does not hate gays, lesbo's, trannies,
or whatever. This does not mean he "supports" them.
We read or heard his words, you obviously did not, or you just enjoy lying about it to defend the indefensible.
What exactly did he say?
Read the article in full, and see. I only pasted a small potion of it.
I did.
Why didn't you?
I did, but only reposted a portion of it to you, to show you that the world knows about the pope and his actions like I have pointed out to you over the years as the course of his actions endured. Which you denied even tho it was fully publicly exposed.
Post by P+Barker
Plus, try to remember that Francis spoke in Italian, and his words
were translated into English - not always a perfect match.
And he spoke in English as will, with his own lips.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
There's a lot of talk about the gay lobby, but I've never seen it on
the Vatican ID card.
When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being
gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have
goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn't be marginalized. The
tendency [i.e., same-sex attraction] is not the problem ... they're
our brothers.
Not if they continue to live in that lifestyle.
Why would they if (as the pope said): they accept the Lord and have
goodwill. Read the words again.
Those with the "same-sex attraction" may very well be your brothers, especially since many of them are your leaders/brothers. But not mine. And as long as the feel and live that way, then they have not been changed and forgiven of God. He who has been set free is free indeed.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
UPDATE: Here is a fuller presentation of the exchange. Big hat tip to
Salt and Light!
The Question to Pope Francis from Ilse, a journalist on the Papal
flight
Ilse: I would like to ask permission to pose a rather delicate
question. Another image that went around the world is that of
Monsignor Ricca and the news about his personal life. I would like to
know, your Holiness, what will be done about this question. How
should one deal with this question and how does your Holiness wish to
deal with the whole question of the gay lobby?
The Pope’s Answer
Regarding the matter of Monsignor Ricca, I did what Canon Law required
and did the required investigation. And from the investigation, we
did not find anything corresponding to the accusations against him. We
found none of that. That is the answer. But I would like to add one
more thing to this: I see that so many times in the Church, apart from
this case and also in this case, one looks for the “sins of youth,”
for example, is it not thus?, And then these things are published.
These things are not crimes. The crimes are something else: child
abuse is a crime. But sins, if a person, or secular priest or a nun,
has committed a sin and then that person experienced conversion, the
Lord forgives and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets and this is
very important for our lives. When we go to confession and we truly
say “I have sinned in this matter,” the Lord forgets and we do not
have the right to not forget because we run the risk that the Lord
will not forget our sins, eh? This is a danger. This is what is
important: a theology of sin. So many times I think of St. Peter: he
committed one of the worst sins denying Christ. And with this sin
they made him Pope. We must think about fact often.
Anyone can confess a sin, any sin. So what?
You refuse to.
You claim you are unable to sin.
Get over this silly obstacle.
Your obstacle is not mine. You do not listen to reason, nor scripture, nor God. You insist on your lies and never the truth. Therefore you bear false witness, which is a sin, as pointed out to you in the OT scriptures so that you might know sin.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
If they do not repent and turn away from it, then what good is being honest about being a sinner? Nothing. It is no different than the whore who goes to confession, and returns to her whoredoms after church or on Monday.
Same with your sins, especially if you are not Born Again and therefore no a child of God.
But... then... you claim if you are born again, you will never sin
again. Isn't that right?
How many times and in how many ways do I need to reiterate to you, NO! "No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God. By this it is made clear who take their nature from God and are His children and who take their nature from the deviland are his children: no one who does not practice righteousness [who does not conform to God's will in purpose, thought, and action] is of God; neither is anyone who does not love his brother (his fellow believer in Christ)."1Jn 3:9-10 (AMPC)
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
But returning to your question more concretely: in this case [Ricca] I
did the required investigation and we found nothing. That is the
first question. Then you spoke of the gay lobby. Agh… so much is
written about the gay lobby. I have yet to find on a Vatican identity
card the word gay. They say there are some gay people here. I think
that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction
between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby,
because lobbies are not good. They are bad. If a person is gay and
seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge that person? The
Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this point beautifully but
says, wait a moment, how does it say, it says, these persons must
never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.”
See, that is his usual way of double speak. He knows the gullible with believe the crumbs he tosses out for them, while he pacifies his queer friends.
The pope does not hate people.
Catholics invite everyone to come into the light.
Their light, not the light of God. Their belief in Mary is of the antichrist.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
A "practicing" homo is a sinner and does not deserve to receive the
Sacraments inside the church.
The Holy Eucharist is the most important of the seven sacraments
because, in this and in no other sacrament, we receive the very body
and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Innumerable, precious
graces come to us through the reception of Holy Communion.
Holy Communion is an intimate encounter with Christ, in which we
sacramentally receive Christ into our bodies, that we may be more
completely assimilated into his. “The Eucharist builds the Church,” as
Pope John Paul II said (Redemptor Hominis 20). It deepens unity with
the Church, more fully assimilating us into Christ (1 Cor. 12:13; CCC
1396).
A distortion of what 1 for 12:13 means in context. As "we" specifically speaks to those that are born again. Not those that are members of any religion.
We do not distort.
You just did.
Post by P+Barker
That is your habit.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
The Catholic Church sets out specific guidelines regarding how we
should prepare ourselves to receive the Lord’s body and blood in
Communion. First, you must be in a state of grace. “Whoever,
therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy
manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let
a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup”
(1 Cor. 11:27–28). This is an absolute requirement that can never be
dispensed. To receive the Eucharist without sanctifying grace in your
soul profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner.
I would love to share what this actually means for your benefit. But you don't even know what this means according to the RCC.
I have spoken in regards to this passage many times here, and to you in particular. The last sentence above condemns you, even in the RC sense.
And you know for a fact that you have no "sanctifying grace in your soul" and so you profane what you believe in the post previous of matters. You can bluster all you want, but sadly you know down deep inside that this is true for you.
Share your thoughts.
I love non-christians telling me what I should believe.
Then why is it that you do not remember?
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Do you feel you can judge a person who is a sinner?
(Rhetorical.) You do it all the time.
Post by Robert
Some of the practicing homo's even dispense the sacraments within the RCC, and their hands re ungloved when they hand you your goodies. Yet you eat it all up.
Perhaps you can point them out to me....
Why? You just stated that the Pope said it was ok.
No, I did not.
Yes, you did, and did so yourself as well.
Post by P+Barker
That was your lips moving.
Let us take another silly example.
According to the law, you must have a drivers license, registration,
and insurance to drive your car on the public roadways.
If you are missing one of those, you are breaking the law.
In order to receive the Eucharist during Mass, you should be baptised,
be a practicing Catholic, and be prepared to receive our Lord, Jesus.
If you are missing one of those, you are sinning against God.
That is NOT to be found in scripture
Post by P+Barker
Of course there are many people who drive - it is not impossible.
Of course some people receive Communion when they should not.
Each person is responsible for his own actions.
Catholics want the responsible authority to address trespasses.
Then why do they have so many laws? Why are their laws so strict that you have broken every one of them and are tp be considered accursed by the RCC and the Council of Trent?
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Of course I admit there might be homosexuals who might be priests.
But are they chaste? Do they actually sin all the time.
We love the sinner, hate the sin.
Get over it.
Yes, you kiss them without shame.
Why did you feel you had a need to say this?
Does Jesus approve of your insults to me?
If you are ashamed, and you should be, then why have you insulted your own self?
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Catholic teaching holds that gay people should be treated with respect but that homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered'.
OK then. You are starting to get it now.
I didn't write this, article, I pasted in in from the original post, yet you comment on it all, out of ignorance and poor reading comprehension, very poor.
If you post something that you do not believe, then you should
immediately say so. Otherwise you are being dishonest.
I do not post things I do not believe as if I did.
Do you believe I kiss gay priests?
Is not every leader in your church a priest?
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
We do not welcome gays into the priesthood.
In fact we do everything we can to ensure they do not enter the
priesthood. There certainly have been gays who have entered the
clerical state, but they are not "WELCOMED."
Last I heard over 1/3 of them are known homo's, nuns too.
Prove it.
Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist and former priest, has studied celibacy, chastity, and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic.
Richard Sipe is a homosexual who wants others to be lumped into his
little group so that he can claim that he is just like the others.
Well, Uncle Jimmy smokes. Why can't I?
Post by Robert
He once estimated that 30%of the priesthood is homosexually oriented.5Elsewhere, he is quoted as estimating that between 25% and 45% of American priests are homosexual in orientation.6
Richard Sipe is a homosexual who wants others to be lumped into his
little group so that he can claim that he is just like the others.
Well, Uncle Jimmy smokes. Why can't I?
You can, and perhaps that is why you allow for their lifestyle outside the RCC in spite of the Fact that He is 100% opposed to it.
Post by P+Barker
The psychotherapist (Sipe) also wrote various articles and books on
celibacy and sexuality and spoke around the world about the subject.
He served as a source for various media inquiries including that of
The Boston Globe staff as it reported in 2002 on the mishandling of
clergy accused of abuse in the Archdiocese of Boston.
There wasn't a court appearance that he would turn down. He loved to
travel first class, write his books, and testify against the church.
He is also dead. Remember: A broken clock is correct twice a day.
So you admit he would know far better than a lay person, unless that lay person was also gay, good for you. His group was quite large when he was in the RCC.
P+Barker
2021-03-16 21:38:33 UTC
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Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....
but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.
Not really.
If gays want to live in some sort of legal cohabitation, then they
should create a civil law for them to do so.
This cannot be considered a real marriage though.
So you do condone their marriages, eh? Hypocrite
I acknowlege they feel they need to be cosnidered equal to real
married couples. If they wish to have all the civil benefits of a
marriage, they need legislation to allow this.
Marriage is different from a contract commitment.
I condone their contracts as I condone any contract.
Marriage is different though.
Then you do not understand the reason why God is so vehemently opposed to homosexuality. Even to the effeminate male.
If God is opposed, why did He make homosexuals then?
He didn't, Satan did. Just like the devil the destroyer who is the cause of sickness and disease of all types. It is all a result of sin in this world.
Do you claim that Satan has more power than God?
Post by Robert
If God created them then God would be a hypocrite of the highest order for unequivocally condemning them. And he obviously is not.
So, .... you blame it on the devil.
Gotcha.
Robert
2021-03-17 03:59:41 UTC
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Post by Robert
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Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....
but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.
Not really.
If gays want to live in some sort of legal cohabitation, then they
should create a civil law for them to do so.
This cannot be considered a real marriage though.
So you do condone their marriages, eh? Hypocrite
I acknowlege they feel they need to be cosnidered equal to real
married couples. If they wish to have all the civil benefits of a
marriage, they need legislation to allow this.
Marriage is different from a contract commitment.
I condone their contracts as I condone any contract.
Marriage is different though.
Then you do not understand the reason why God is so vehemently opposed to homosexuality. Even to the effeminate male.
If God is opposed, why did He make homosexuals then?
He didn't, Satan did. Just like the devil the destroyer who is the cause of sickness and disease of all types. It is all a result of sin in this world.
Do you claim that Satan has more power than God?
Not at all, and you know that from hearing me in the past.

God gave the dominion of all the things in this earth to Adam. Adam sinned, and gave up that power to Satan, which Jesus later reclaimed. And while that understanding is only the tip of the iceberg on that subject, it is as far as I am going to go with you, as that is already far more than you are willing to handle.

I am marking the rest of this thread from you as read. I see from this post the direction you are going and I will not be walking on that road with you.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
If God created them then God would be a hypocrite of the highest order for unequivocally condemning them. And he obviously is not.
So, .... you blame it on the devil.
Gotcha.
P+Barker
2021-03-17 10:50:21 UTC
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Post by Robert
I am marking the rest of this thread from you as read. I see from this post the direction you are going and I will not be walking on that road with you.
That is just like you.
I find flaws in your preaching, and you then kill-file me.
Gotcha.
AGAIN.
Robert
2021-03-17 16:56:01 UTC
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Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
I am marking the rest of this thread from you as read. I see from this post the direction you are going and I will not be walking on that road with you.
That is just like you.
I find flaws in your preaching, and you then kill-file me.
Gotcha.
AGAIN.
You found no flaws, you just made things up, as usual.
P+Barker
2021-03-17 22:17:14 UTC
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Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
I am marking the rest of this thread from you as read. I see from this post the direction you are going and I will not be walking on that road with you.
That is just like you.
I find flaws in your preaching, and you then kill-file me.
Gotcha.
AGAIN.
You found no flaws, you just made things up, as usual.
The problem is your mouth.
You make silly stements about what you believe.
Even though you claim you do not have a creed.
You claim you are unable to sin.
But won't explain why Jesus taught us the "Our Father" which discusses
trespasses. Something you do not believe in.
You claim we must be baptised with water and the spirit, yet the thief
on the cross was never baptised.
You claim that you "born agains" don't have to be forgiven for
anything since you do not sin.

I don't make these things up.
Robert
2021-03-18 02:19:52 UTC
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Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
I am marking the rest of this thread from you as read. I see from this post the direction you are going and I will not be walking on that road with you.
That is just like you.
I find flaws in your preaching, and you then kill-file me.
Gotcha.
AGAIN.
You found no flaws, you just made things up, as usual.
The problem is your mouth.
You make silly stements about what you believe.
Even though you claim you do not have a creed.
You claim you are unable to sin.
But won't explain why Jesus taught us the "Our Father" which discusses
trespasses. Something you do not believe in.
You claim we must be baptised with water and the spirit, yet the thief
on the cross was never baptised.
You claim that you "born agains" don't have to be forgiven for
anything since you do not sin.
I don't make these things up.
Who said.

"Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God."
P+Barker
2021-03-18 12:07:18 UTC
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Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
I am marking the rest of this thread from you as read. I see from this post the direction you are going and I will not be walking on that road with you.
That is just like you.
I find flaws in your preaching, and you then kill-file me.
Gotcha.
AGAIN.
You found no flaws, you just made things up, as usual.
The problem is your mouth.
You make silly stements about what you believe.
Even though you claim you do not have a creed.
You claim you are unable to sin.
But won't explain why Jesus taught us the "Our Father" which discusses
trespasses. Something you do not believe in.
You claim we must be baptised with water and the spirit, yet the thief
on the cross was never baptised.
You claim that you "born agains" don't have to be forgiven for
anything since you do not sin.
I don't make these things up.
Who said.
"Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God."
Is this a test? I dunno.
And I don't know in what context this was said.
Do you feel you are born again into God's family?
Did you get a "born again" card or a "get out of hell free" card?
Robert
2021-03-18 15:37:51 UTC
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Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
I am marking the rest of this thread from you as read. I see from this post the direction you are going and I will not be walking on that road with you.
That is just like you.
I find flaws in your preaching, and you then kill-file me.
Gotcha.
AGAIN.
You found no flaws, you just made things up, as usual.
The problem is your mouth.
You make silly stements about what you believe.
Even though you claim you do not have a creed.
You claim you are unable to sin.
But won't explain why Jesus taught us the "Our Father" which discusses
trespasses. Something you do not believe in.
You claim we must be baptised with water and the spirit, yet the thief
on the cross was never baptised.
You claim that you "born agains" don't have to be forgiven for
anything since you do not sin.
I don't make these things up.
Who said.
"Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God."
Is this a test? I dunno.
It is scripture, but something that you blame me for.
And I don't know in what context this was said.
Do you feel you are born again into God's family?
No, I don't feel, I know I am.
Did you get a "born again" card or a "get out of hell free" card?
No card, just the surety of the Holy Spirit that is far superior to any baptismal card.

You see, God is real, his words mean something. We can put 100% trust in him, try doing that with a religion and watch them change something and pull the rug right out from under you.
P+Barker
2021-03-18 23:33:57 UTC
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Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
I am marking the rest of this thread from you as read. I see from this post the direction you are going and I will not be walking on that road with you.
That is just like you.
I find flaws in your preaching, and you then kill-file me.
Gotcha.
AGAIN.
You found no flaws, you just made things up, as usual.
The problem is your mouth.
You make silly stements about what you believe.
Even though you claim you do not have a creed.
You claim you are unable to sin.
But won't explain why Jesus taught us the "Our Father" which discusses
trespasses. Something you do not believe in.
You claim we must be baptised with water and the spirit, yet the thief
on the cross was never baptised.
You claim that you "born agains" don't have to be forgiven for
anything since you do not sin.
I don't make these things up.
Who said.
"Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God."
Is this a test? I dunno.
It is scripture, but something that you blame me for.
And I don't know in what context this was said.
Do you feel you are born again into God's family?
No, I don't feel, I know I am.
Did you get a "born again" card or a "get out of hell free" card?
No card, just the surety of the Holy Spirit that is far superior to any baptismal card.
You see, God is real, his words mean something. We can put 100% trust in him, try doing that with a religion and watch them change something and pull the rug right out from under you.
Good for you.
P+Barker
2021-03-16 21:46:25 UTC
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Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Love the sinner. Hate the sin.
Why did Jesus speak with the Centurian, the Samaritan woman, the
pharisses? I didn't hear you... Does Jesus have no respect for God?
Telling me to shut up will not excuse away your lack of respect for Gods words.
Love the sinner. Hate the sin.
Why did Jesus speak with the Centurian, the Samaritan woman, the
pharisses? I didn't hear you... Does Jesus have no respect for God?
Post by Robert
While God has shed abroad his love for the sinner and has provided a way of escape from sin to them, he does not love sinners.
God so loved the world that he gave his Son (John 3:16). Some try to
take kosmos (“world”)
God’s love for sinners should always astound and humble us. It must
never be reduced to a merely academic matter. Rightly did the psalmist
wonder, “What is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man
that you care for him?” (Ps. 8:4).
God loves his people, his creation, and this fallen cosmos, and that
unfathomable truth should lead us to worship him fervently, crying out
with the great apostle, “For from him and through him and to him are
all things. To him be glory forever. Amen” (Rom. 11:36).
Post by Robert
He does not hear their prayers, and they get the overflow of the blessings he sends upon the righteous ones. God destroyed the lands of sinners many times when their wickedness surpassed the limits he would allow.
So you feel your little god does not love all his creations.
OK then.
Post by Robert
There is also a judgment coming to this earth and we are in the beginnings of sorrows right now. World wide. This country, the USA has the blood of millions of babies on its hands, and part of what we are now going through is a result of that.
All rightee then.
Post by Robert
He has throughout history destroyed nations who sacrificed their babies to their gods, and in America that god they sacrifice to is Self.
Do you have any recent examples?
P+Barker
2021-03-16 21:50:21 UTC
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Post by Robert
But you support the sin, you allow it by providing a way of life for it outside the RCC as far as marriage goes. You say that God created them that way, you think they should have the freedom to live openly the homosexual way of life.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Do you know what that means?
Post by Robert
You condone what God hates. You condone the sin, and as such are a hypocrite of the highest order.
Why do you claim I condone sin?
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Is this difficult for you?
Post by Robert
You even make excuses for them being the leaders in your church which has a history of over 1,000 years of condoning such things, including Popes being active homosexuals, and some dying in the act of it.
Why in the world would I make excuses for history?
If something happened in the past, I cannot change it or excuse it.
Why do you even think this way?
Do you excuse calvinist teachings?
P+Barker
2021-03-16 21:52:55 UTC
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Post by P+Barker
As you said above: "You show no respect of Gods words, and are equal
to all those that try and find a work a round for homo's and enabling
them to life a lifestyle directly opposed to the plans an purposes for
God." These are your words.
Yes, I did, and meant every word of it.
If a sinner repents of the sin and no longer participates in it and have been born again, then that sin is erased from their life, never to be remembered by God, ever.
Does this mean you do not believe in a final judgement?
Post by Robert
Same with any other sin done by mankind. He forgives and forgets. Now Satan doesn't forget, and he will torment many with their thoughts and self condemnation, but God does not due that.
Does this mean you do not believe in a final judgement?
P+Barker
2021-03-16 21:56:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
While we are on the subject, do you feel that Muslims can go to
heaven? How about American Indians, Mayans, Aztecs who never got to
know Jesus? What happens to them> Or Jews?
Anyone can if they renounce all their evil ways and choose Jesus Christ as their savior, God, and soon coming King. Sinners are sinners, and Jesus died for all sinners, even if they are Barkers.
Do you feel better now?
If someone never knew Jesus, he is bound for hell then?
Moses? Elijah? Abraham? David? Isiah?
The Jews had a covenant from God, they were a people set aside from the world as long as they followed the covenant.
Abraham was not under that covenant, but he lived by faith in God and was considered perfect before him. He, like the believer had a relationship with God.
So you make excuses for Abraham.
Why can't you allow other good, outstanding men who live good lives to
go to heaven?
Post by Robert
Not as good as the one we can have, but we have it because of Christ. Remember me showing you from scripture that the least in the kingdom of God is superior to all the prophets of old? That is why by faith we can move mountains.
<Yawn>
Show me again.
Also show me how to move mountains.
P+Barker
2021-03-16 22:01:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
All people have a right to be in a family.
They do not have a right to marry within the Catholic Church though.
Then what are you know going to do with all those that have been married within the RCC already?
I'll allow Jesus to judge them.
They already are judged.
according to the prophet wannabe robt......
Thus sayest the Lord,...
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."Joh 3:18 (KJV)
That has nothing to do with people who sinned long ago.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Judgement Day comes after we die, robt.
Final judgement. At the end of the rule of Christ. The believer has already been forgiven as long as they walk by faith and they are the righteousness of God in Christ.
Already been forgiven?
Do you have a scripture reading on this?
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Belief in the Last Judgment (often linked with the General judgment)
is held firmly in Catholicism. Immediately upon death each person
undergoes the particular judgment, and depending upon one's behavior
on earth, goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell. ... Before the Last
Judgment, all will be resurrected.
That is their doctrine, and only their doctrine. It is not of God. Before that last judgment I will already have been in heaven for a minimum of Seven years.
Seven years?
Where do you come up with all your BS?
Post by Robert
We will come back to earth to rule and reign with Jesus Christ. Gods doctrine. The sinner is already condemned and is awaiting in hell the final judgment for the sins they committed.
You plan to rule the world?
How will that work?
Will you be like a mayor daily or a governor cuomo?
P+Barker
2021-03-16 22:07:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Robert <***@love.god> wrote:

Parrick speaking about Pope Francis....
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
I know exactly what he said.
He said he is not here to judge others.
He is here to spread the Good News of Jesus.
To one and all.
You do not know, you spent all this time arguing with me about what the pope said and did when it is all in the historical records.
And I posted the real quotes to you.
No, you didn't.
YES, I did.
I gave you the exact quotes, and where to find them.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Read the article in full, and see. I only pasted a small potion of it.
I did.
Why didn't you?
I did, but only reposted a portion of it to you, to show you that the world knows about the pope and his actions like I have pointed out to you over the years as the course of his actions endured.
Which you denied even tho it was fully publicly exposed.
I then posted the exact quote, where it was said, and to whom it was
said to.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Plus, try to remember that Francis spoke in Italian, and his words
were translated into English - not always a perfect match.
And he spoke in English as will, with his own lips.
Not this particular time on the airplane when he was speaking with
reporters.
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
There's a lot of talk about the gay lobby, but I've never seen it on
the Vatican ID card.
When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being
gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have
goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn't be marginalized. The
tendency [i.e., same-sex attraction] is not the problem ... they're
our brothers.
Not if they continue to live in that lifestyle.
Why would they if (as the pope said): they accept the Lord and have
goodwill. Read the words again.
Those with the "same-sex attraction" may very well be your brothers, especially since many of them are your leaders/brothers. But not mine.
And as long as the feel and live that way, then they have not been changed and forgiven of God. He who has been set free is free indeed.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Why do you think Jesus came his disciples the ability to forgive sin?
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
But... then... you claim if you are born again, you will never sin
again. Isn't that right?
How many times and in how many ways do I need to reiterate to you, NO! "No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him
That is exactly what I said.
You claim that you are unable to sin.
Rod
2021-03-16 01:10:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....
but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.
The remarks emerged last year in a documentary in which he also said: 'Homosexual people have the right to be in a family... they are children of God'.
The Vatican played down Francis's remarks at the time, saying they were taken out of context and referred to his position while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.
But it did not confirm or deny reports that it had ordered the sensitive remarks to be cut from the Mexican TV interview in which they were initially made in 2019.
Francis's words were hailed by admirers at the time as a 'major step forward in the church's support for LGBT people'.
However, there was also a chorus of anger from conservative Catholics who said they 'clearly contradict what has been the long-standing teaching of the church'.
Catholic teaching holds that gay people should be treated with respect but that homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered'.
A 2003 document from the Vatican's doctrine office - bearing the stamp of Francis's two immediate predecessors - said legal approval would mean the 'approval of deviant behaviour'.
'The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions,' it said.
Francis has frequently said that gay people should be accepted in their parishes and urged parents not to reject their children.
On his first foreign trip as pope, to Brazil in 2013, he said of gay people trying to live a Christian life: 'Who am I to judge?'.
Since then, he has ministered to gay people and transgender prostitutes, and welcomed people in same-sex partnerships into his inner circle.
*****************************
So how do you now account the welcoming of these people to your priesthoods and nuns? Their "marriage to the church"?
As long as they are repentant and no longer practicing that life style
it isn't a problem.
Mattb
2021-03-16 18:27:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Not the pope, here again is the proof to you of what he has said and did previously,....
but his 2019 comments that 'what we have to create is a civil union law' caused a sensation in the Catholic world.
Not really.
If gays want to live in some sort of legal cohabitation, then they
should create a civil law for them to do so.
This cannot be considered a real marriage though.
If the RCC performs a marriage where say one person is an adulterer
or even a pedophile that would not make it a real marriage, the Church
doesn't make such a Holy union that is done by God alone.
Post by Robert
The remarks emerged last year in a documentary in which he also said: 'Homosexual people have the right to be in a family... they are children of God'.
Absolutely.
All people have a right to be in a family.
They do not have a right to marry within the Catholic Church though.
Post by Robert
The Vatican played down Francis's remarks at the time, saying they were taken out of context and referred to his position while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.
Another example of people thinking they know what was said and what
was meant. The pope says all people deserve a chance for salvation to
heaven, They also deserve the right to life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness. However, they do not have the right to marry in the
Catholic Church which does not accept this as a holy covenant.
Post by Robert
But it did not confirm or deny reports that it had ordered the sensitive remarks to be cut from the Mexican TV interview in which they were initially made in 2019.
So?
Post by Robert
Francis's words were hailed by admirers at the time as a 'major step forward in the church's support for LGBT people'.
His words merely show that he does not hate gays, lesbo's, trannies,
or whatever. This does not mean he "supports" them.
Post by Robert
However, there was also a chorus of anger from conservative Catholics who said they 'clearly contradict what has been the long-standing teaching of the church'.
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
If you owned a business would you hire gay people?
Post by Robert
Catholic teaching holds that gay people should be treated with respect but that homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered'.
OK then. You are starting to get it now.
Post by Robert
A 2003 document from the Vatican's doctrine office - bearing the stamp of Francis's two immediate predecessors - said legal approval would mean the 'approval of deviant behaviour'.
<Yawn> LIAR.
Post by Robert
'The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions,' it said.
Francis has frequently said that gay people should be accepted in their parishes and urged parents not to reject their children.
On his first foreign trip as pope, to Brazil in 2013, he said of gay people trying to live a Christian life: 'Who am I to judge?'.
Since then, he has ministered to gay people and transgender prostitutes, and welcomed people in same-sex partnerships into his inner circle.
*****************************
OK.
Post by Robert
So how do you now account the welcoming of these people to your priesthoods and nuns? Their "marriage to the church"?
We do not welcome gays into the priesthood.
In fact we do everything we can to ensure they do not enter the
priesthood. There certainly have been gays who have entered the
clerical state, but they are not "WELCOMED."
What are you? STupid?
P+Barker
2021-03-16 22:10:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
If the RCC performs a marriage where say one person is an adulterer
or even a pedophile that would not make it a real marriage, the Church
doesn't make such a Holy union that is done by God alone.
The RCC does not "perform" marriages.
The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to themselves.
Post by Mattb
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
If you owned a business would you hire gay people?
Not if they informed me that they are gay and plan to provide their
gay agenda to others. NOPE. Never.

You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
Mattb
2021-03-16 22:34:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
If the RCC performs a marriage where say one person is an adulterer
or even a pedophile that would not make it a real marriage, the Church
doesn't make such a Holy union that is done by God alone.
The RCC does not "perform" marriages.
The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to themselves.
Then they are not needed at all for that, and have no say on the
matter is what you are saying?
.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
If you owned a business would you hire gay people?
Not if they informed me that they are gay and plan to provide their
gay agenda to others. NOPE. Never.
What if they did not provide their gay agenda to others, but you
knew they were gay.
Post by P+Barker
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
Yet noticed for centuries kept the pedophile priest who victimized
little boys.
P+Barker
2021-03-17 10:53:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
If the RCC performs a marriage where say one person is an adulterer
or even a pedophile that would not make it a real marriage, the Church
doesn't make such a Holy union that is done by God alone.
The RCC does not "perform" marriages.
The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to themselves.
Then they are not needed at all for that, and have no say on the
matter is what you are saying?
Does the couple wish to receive the Sacrament?
Or just sign a contract?
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
If you owned a business would you hire gay people?
Not if they informed me that they are gay and plan to provide their
gay agenda to others. NOPE. Never.
What if they did not provide their gay agenda to others, but you
knew they were gay.
Each case would be different.
Would you purchase a flawed product?
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
Yet noticed for centuries kept the pedophile priest who victimized
little boys.
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
Robert
2021-03-17 16:57:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
Yet noticed for centuries kept the pedophile priest who victimized
little boys.
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
That is only half the story, as usual. The other half is that they just transfer them to another school.
P+Barker
2021-03-17 22:18:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
Yet noticed for centuries kept the pedophile priest who victimized
little boys.
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
That is only half the story, as usual. The other half is that they just transfer them to another school.
The Catholic Church fires practicing gay teachers.
It is up to you and them to transfer to your public schools, where you
welcome them with open arms.
Mattb
2021-03-17 18:03:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
If the RCC performs a marriage where say one person is an adulterer
or even a pedophile that would not make it a real marriage, the Church
doesn't make such a Holy union that is done by God alone.
The RCC does not "perform" marriages.
The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to themselves.
Then they are not needed at all for that, and have no say on the
matter is what you are saying?
Does the couple wish to receive the Sacrament?
Then it is more than a witness the Priest does?
Post by P+Barker
Or just sign a contract?
Depends on the couple.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
If you owned a business would you hire gay people?
Not if they informed me that they are gay and plan to provide their
gay agenda to others. NOPE. Never.
What if they did not provide their gay agenda to others, but you
knew they were gay.
Each case would be different.
Would you purchase a flawed product?
I do not judge people for work by them being Gay but each by their
merits.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
Yet noticed for centuries kept the pedophile priest who victimized
little boys.
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
NOW that you have been busted so publicly. How many centuries has
the RCC been busing children? Historically quite a few, maybe since
its founding around 323AD.
P+Barker
2021-03-17 22:31:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
If the RCC performs a marriage where say one person is an adulterer
or even a pedophile that would not make it a real marriage, the Church
doesn't make such a Holy union that is done by God alone.
The RCC does not "perform" marriages.
The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to themselves.
Then they are not needed at all for that, and have no say on the
matter is what you are saying?
Does the couple wish to receive the Sacrament?
Then it is more than a witness the Priest does?
Would yyou like a lesson on this?
The sacrament of marriage has been part of the Catholic Church for
thousands of years. It is recently that local civil governments got
into the practice of collecting money for the legal contracts.
When a priest marries a man and a woman, they must have first received
catholic instruction prior to the event. After the ceremony, the
priest signs two documents: one for the church and the couple, and one
for the state. This document makes it a legal contract, with legal
consequences, legal privileges, etc.

What are the steps of a Catholic marriage?
In order to be married within the Catholic Church, there are a number
of important requirements that must be fulfilled before you are even
able to be considered.

1. Baptized Christian
One of the partners need to be Catholic and if the other is not
Catholic, he or she need to be a baptized Christian. If you were not
baptized as a child, you may go through the process of becoming a
Catholic as an adult.
Not closely related
Both partners cannot be closely related and this includes being
cousins.
2. Free to marry
In order to be married in the Catholic Church, both spouses may not be
currently married. If they were previously married, the previous
spouse must either be deceased, or there must have been a declaration
of nullity from the Church. In order to get this declaration, there
needs to have been contractual defects in the marriage.
3. Be of the opposite sex
The Catholic Church only recognizes marriages between a man and a
woman, so partners need to be of the opposite sex in order to be
married in the Church.
4. In good standing of the Church
The definition of “in good standing” will differ from Church to
Church. Basically, you do need to have regular attendance at your
Church and have no scandals or immoral behavior. If you are currently
living unwed with your partner, you will need to discuss this with the
priest.
5. Free consent
Both parties must freely consent to the marriage and have already
worked out any issues that might cause one party not to freely
consent.

Next, you must Contact your Parish
Once you believe that you meet the requirements as stated above (or if
you need to discuss them), you should contact your Parish to discuss
your wedding. You will need to obtain permission to be married in the
Church, whether it is at your current Parish or elsewhere.
While it is not required that you be a registered member, it is
definitely helpful in the process. You will meet with the clergy and
get to know them and they’ll get to know you and you can discuss any
issues you may have with getting married in the Catholic Church. If
they have any requisite fees, you will pay them at this point or give
a monetary gift.

Then you must Take a marriage preparation program
In order to recognize if you are ready for marriage and to prepare you
for issues that you’ll inevitably face in your marriage, taking a
marriage preparation course is mandatory for most marriages that occur
within the Catholic Church.
During the course, you’ll learn about balancing values, money, the
role of family, healthy sexuality and intimacy, planning a family and
parenting, communication skills and the theology of marriage.
Fortunately, there are online courses that you can take that will suit
your busy schedule and allow you learn about marriage, fulfilling the
Catholic Church’s requirements.
Living Our Faith in Love - Online Pre-Cana

And finally, you must Provide your certificates to the Church
There are a number of documents that the Church will want to see
before granting you permission to marry. These include:

Baptismal certificates
Certification of Holy Communion and Confirmation
Affidavit of Freedom to Marry
Civil marriage license
Marriage Preparation Course Completion Certificate

THE SACRAMENT OF MATRIMONY

1601 "The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish
between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its
nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and
education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has
been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament."84

MARRIAGE IN GOD'S PLAN

1602 Sacred Scripture begins with the creation of man and woman in the
image and likeness of God and concludes with a vision of "the
wedding-feast of the Lamb."85 Scripture speaks throughout of marriage
and its "mystery," its institution and the meaning God has given it,
its origin and its end, its various realizations throughout the
history of salvation, the difficulties arising from sin and its
renewal "in the Lord" in the New Covenant of Christ and the Church.86
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Or just sign a contract?
Depends on the couple.
And depends on the requirement listed above.
No one can just walk into a Catholic Church and ask to be married.
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
If you owned a business would you hire gay people?
Not if they informed me that they are gay and plan to provide their
gay agenda to others. NOPE. Never.
What if they did not provide their gay agenda to others, but you
knew they were gay.
Each case would be different.
Would you purchase a flawed product?
I do not judge people for work by them being Gay but each by their
merits.
You didn't answer the question.
How about if you explain what type of business I run before I decide
to hire a person looking for employment.

If I run a cleaning service, it probably doesn't matter.
If I hire a person to educate my child, it does matter.
If I hire a person for a phone service, does he have a lisp?
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
NOW that you have been busted so publicly. How many centuries has
the RCC been busing children? Historically quite a few, maybe since
its founding around 323AD.
We remove any educator who we know may be abusing children.
Or teaching them immoral things according to our faith.
Mattb
2021-03-17 23:02:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
If the RCC performs a marriage where say one person is an adulterer
or even a pedophile that would not make it a real marriage, the Church
doesn't make such a Holy union that is done by God alone.
The RCC does not "perform" marriages.
The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to themselves.
Then they are not needed at all for that, and have no say on the
matter is what you are saying?
Does the couple wish to receive the Sacrament?
Then it is more than a witness the Priest does?
Would yyou like a lesson on this?
The sacrament of marriage has been part of the Catholic Church for
thousands of years. It is recently that local civil governments got
into the practice of collecting money for the legal contracts.
When a priest marries a man and a woman, they must have first received
catholic instruction prior to the event. After the ceremony, the
priest signs two documents: one for the church and the couple, and one
for the state. This document makes it a legal contract, with legal
consequences, legal privileges, etc.
What are the steps of a Catholic marriage?
In order to be married within the Catholic Church, there are a number
of important requirements that must be fulfilled before you are even
able to be considered.
1. Baptized Christian
One of the partners need to be Catholic and if the other is not
Catholic, he or she need to be a baptized Christian. If you were not
baptized as a child, you may go through the process of becoming a
Catholic as an adult.
Not closely related
Both partners cannot be closely related and this includes being
cousins.
2. Free to marry
In order to be married in the Catholic Church, both spouses may not be
currently married. If they were previously married, the previous
spouse must either be deceased, or there must have been a declaration
of nullity from the Church. In order to get this declaration, there
needs to have been contractual defects in the marriage.
3. Be of the opposite sex
The Catholic Church only recognizes marriages between a man and a
woman, so partners need to be of the opposite sex in order to be
married in the Church.
4. In good standing of the Church
The definition of “in good standing” will differ from Church to
Church. Basically, you do need to have regular attendance at your
Church and have no scandals or immoral behavior. If you are currently
living unwed with your partner, you will need to discuss this with the
priest.
5. Free consent
Both parties must freely consent to the marriage and have already
worked out any issues that might cause one party not to freely
consent.
Next, you must Contact your Parish
Once you believe that you meet the requirements as stated above (or if
you need to discuss them), you should contact your Parish to discuss
your wedding. You will need to obtain permission to be married in the
Church, whether it is at your current Parish or elsewhere.
While it is not required that you be a registered member, it is
definitely helpful in the process. You will meet with the clergy and
get to know them and they’ll get to know you and you can discuss any
issues you may have with getting married in the Catholic Church. If
they have any requisite fees, you will pay them at this point or give
a monetary gift.
Then you must Take a marriage preparation program
In order to recognize if you are ready for marriage and to prepare you
for issues that you’ll inevitably face in your marriage, taking a
marriage preparation course is mandatory for most marriages that occur
within the Catholic Church.
During the course, you’ll learn about balancing values, money, the
role of family, healthy sexuality and intimacy, planning a family and
parenting, communication skills and the theology of marriage.
Fortunately, there are online courses that you can take that will suit
your busy schedule and allow you learn about marriage, fulfilling the
Catholic Church’s requirements.
Living Our Faith in Love - Online Pre-Cana
And finally, you must Provide your certificates to the Church
There are a number of documents that the Church will want to see
Baptismal certificates
Certification of Holy Communion and Confirmation
Affidavit of Freedom to Marry
Civil marriage license
Marriage Preparation Course Completion Certificate
THE SACRAMENT OF MATRIMONY
1601 "The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish
between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its
nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and
education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has
been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament."84
MARRIAGE IN GOD'S PLAN
1602 Sacred Scripture begins with the creation of man and woman in the
image and likeness of God and concludes with a vision of "the
wedding-feast of the Lamb."85 Scripture speaks throughout of marriage
and its "mystery," its institution and the meaning God has given it,
its origin and its end, its various realizations throughout the
history of salvation, the difficulties arising from sin and its
renewal "in the Lord" in the New Covenant of Christ and the Church.86
Then what you are saying is the RCC is not truly needed. I agree.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Or just sign a contract?
Depends on the couple.
And depends on the requirement listed above.
No one can just walk into a Catholic Church and ask to be married.
True. I'd never take a male child into the RCC.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
If you owned a business would you hire gay people?
Not if they informed me that they are gay and plan to provide their
gay agenda to others. NOPE. Never.
What if they did not provide their gay agenda to others, but you
knew they were gay.
Each case would be different.
Would you purchase a flawed product?
I do not judge people for work by them being Gay but each by their
merits.
You didn't answer the question.
How about if you explain what type of business I run before I decide
to hire a person looking for employment.
It was a general question you were in the USAF and had no power over
civilian hiring.
Post by P+Barker
If I run a cleaning service, it probably doesn't matter.
If I hire a person to educate my child, it does matter.
If I hire a person for a phone service, does he have a lisp?
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.
NOW that you have been busted so publicly. How many centuries has
the RCC been busing children? Historically quite a few, maybe since
its founding around 323AD.
We remove any educator who we know may be abusing children.
Or teaching them immoral things according to our faith.
Sure you did.
P+Barker
2021-03-18 12:13:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
What are the steps of a Catholic marriage?
In order to be married within the Catholic Church, there are a number
of important requirements that must be fulfilled before you are even
able to be considered.
1. Baptized Christian
2. Free to marry
3. Be of the opposite sex
4. In good standing of the Church
5. Free consent
Then what you are saying is the RCC is not truly needed. I agree.
Not if you want a civil marriage.
If you wish to receive the Sacrament, this is different.
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Or just sign a contract?
Depends on the couple.
And depends on the requirement listed above.
No one can just walk into a Catholic Church and ask to be married.
True. I'd never take a male child into the RCC.
No one cares.
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
How about if you explain what type of business I run before I decide
to hire a person looking for employment.
It was a general question you were in the USAF and had no power over
civilian hiring.
Be careful what you say.
I fired more than one civilian working for the USAF.
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
If I run a cleaning service, it probably doesn't matter.
If I hire a person to educate my child, it does matter.
If I hire a person for a phone service, does he have a lisp?
We remove any educator who we know may be abusing children.
Or teaching them immoral things according to our faith.
Sure you did.
We did. Wed do. Would you like examples?
You have posted them here yourself.
Mattb
2021-03-18 16:57:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
What are the steps of a Catholic marriage?
In order to be married within the Catholic Church, there are a number
of important requirements that must be fulfilled before you are even
able to be considered.
1. Baptized Christian
2. Free to marry
3. Be of the opposite sex
4. In good standing of the Church
5. Free consent
Then what you are saying is the RCC is not truly needed. I agree.
Not if you want a civil marriage.
If you wish to receive the Sacrament, this is different.
Why would you need a priest if as you said they are just a witness?
"The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to
themselves."
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Or just sign a contract?
Depends on the couple.
And depends on the requirement listed above.
No one can just walk into a Catholic Church and ask to be married.
True. I'd never take a male child into the RCC.
No one cares.
Those perverted priest care.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
How about if you explain what type of business I run before I decide
to hire a person looking for employment.
It was a general question you were in the USAF and had no power over
civilian hiring.
Be careful what you say.
I fired more than one civilian working for the USAF.
Ye but we are talking about hiring. Your record does not show you
having that authority.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
If I run a cleaning service, it probably doesn't matter.
If I hire a person to educate my child, it does matter.
If I hire a person for a phone service, does he have a lisp?
We remove any educator who we know may be abusing children.
Or teaching them immoral things according to our faith.
Sure you did.
We did. Wed do. Would you like examples?
You have posted them here yourself.
Yes, I have. Most after the RCC was outed for perversion.
P+Barker
2021-03-18 23:38:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
What are the steps of a Catholic marriage?
In order to be married within the Catholic Church, there are a number
of important requirements that must be fulfilled before you are even
able to be considered.
1. Baptized Christian
2. Free to marry
3. Be of the opposite sex
4. In good standing of the Church
5. Free consent
Then what you are saying is the RCC is not truly needed. I agree.
Not if you want a civil marriage.
If you wish to receive the Sacrament, this is different.
Why would you need a priest if as you said they are just a witness?
"The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to
themselves."
Yup. Didn't I go on to explain it more?
If you have forgotten, let me know.
I can expound on this further.
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Or just sign a contract?
Depends on the couple.
And depends on the requirement listed above.
No one can just walk into a Catholic Church and ask to be married.
True. I'd never take a male child into the RCC.
No one cares.
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
How about if you explain what type of business I run before I decide
to hire a person looking for employment.
It was a general question you were in the USAF and had no power over
civilian hiring.
Be careful what you say.
I fired more than one civilian working for the USAF.
Ye but we are talking about hiring. Your record does not show you
having that authority.
Do I really have to explain to you how the military has civilian hires
working in the same offices? If I didn't want Ruth B to work under
me, I merely had to say: "NO."
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
If I run a cleaning service, it probably doesn't matter.
If I hire a person to educate my child, it does matter.
If I hire a person for a phone service, does he have a lisp?
We remove any educator who we know may be abusing children.
Or teaching them immoral things according to our faith.
Sure you did.
We did. We do. Would you like examples?
You have posted them here yourself.
Yes, I have. Most after the RCC was outed for perversion.
<Yawn> So was larry. And he went to prison.
Mattb
2021-03-19 02:02:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
What are the steps of a Catholic marriage?
In order to be married within the Catholic Church, there are a number
of important requirements that must be fulfilled before you are even
able to be considered.
1. Baptized Christian
2. Free to marry
3. Be of the opposite sex
4. In good standing of the Church
5. Free consent
Then what you are saying is the RCC is not truly needed. I agree.
Not if you want a civil marriage.
If you wish to receive the Sacrament, this is different.
Why would you need a priest if as you said they are just a witness?
"The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to
themselves."
Yup. Didn't I go on to explain it more?
If you have forgotten, let me know.
I can expound on this further.
Here is your words in context as anyone who chooses to can see with
the message ID.

Quote:
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 18:10:37 -0400
X-Received-Bytes: 1942
X-Received-Body-CRC: 2800847928
Post by P+Barker
If the RCC performs a marriage where say one person is an adulterer
or even a pedophile that would not make it a real marriage, the Church
doesn't make such a Holy union that is done by God alone.
The RCC does not "perform" marriages.
The priest is a witness to a man and a woman committing to themselves.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
We conservative Catholics agree that every person has dignity and
worth. If a person wishes to identify himself as "gay," then so be
it. All people are invited to enter our church and seek salvation.
We will not bar sinners from entering. We do have standards though
when it comes to being given the Sacraments.
If you require more information on this, just ask.
If you owned a business would you hire gay people?
Not if they informed me that they are gay and plan to provide their
gay agenda to others. NOPE. Never.

You will notice that Catholic schools remove teachers who do this.

END.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Or just sign a contract?
Depends on the couple.
And depends on the requirement listed above.
No one can just walk into a Catholic Church and ask to be married.
True. I'd never take a male child into the RCC.
No one cares.
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
How about if you explain what type of business I run before I decide
to hire a person looking for employment.
It was a general question you were in the USAF and had no power over
civilian hiring.
Be careful what you say.
I fired more than one civilian working for the USAF.
Ye but we are talking about hiring. Your record does not show you
having that authority.
Do I really have to explain to you how the military has civilian hires
working in the same offices?
Not at all I have been one from time to time. Just you lacked that
authority.
Post by P+Barker
If I didn't want Ruth B to work under
me, I merely had to say: "NO."
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
If I run a cleaning service, it probably doesn't matter.
If I hire a person to educate my child, it does matter.
If I hire a person for a phone service, does he have a lisp?
We remove any educator who we know may be abusing children.
Or teaching them immoral things according to our faith.
Sure you did.
We did. We do. Would you like examples?
You have posted them here yourself.
Yes, I have. Most after the RCC was outed for perversion.
<Yawn> So was larry. And he went to prison.
Yes he was and did. Has nothing to do with me or this post.
Miloch
2021-03-15 18:21:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...



*
P+Barker
2021-03-15 20:01:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
The pope opposes any and all sins performed by all people.
Miloch
2021-03-15 20:12:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
The pope opposes any and all sins performed by all people.
...except when they don't....

Vatican’s Secret Rules for Catholic Priests Who Have Children
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/world/europe/priests-children-vatican-rules-celibacy.html

7 Quite Unholy Pope Scandals | Live Science
https://www.livescience.com/8606-7-unholy-pope-scandals.html

Sexually Active Popes Who Didn't Take Celibacy Very Seriously
https://www.ranker.com/list/non-celibate-popes/philgibbons



*
Mattb
2021-03-16 18:28:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
Miloch
2021-03-16 20:01:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
Eh...there's always goin' to be a few bad 'Pope apples' in the Catholic dogma
barrel!



*
P+Barker
2021-03-16 22:12:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Miloch
Eh...there's always goin' to be a few bad 'Pope apples' in the Catholic dogma
barrel!
dogma barrell?
Well, that is a new whine.
Miloch
2021-03-16 22:48:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Eh...there's always goin' to be a few bad 'Pope apples' in the Catholic dogma
barrel!
dogma barrell?
Well, that is a new whine.
...it dovetails with the metaphor...your mind-rot is worse than I thot!



*
Mattb
2021-03-16 22:38:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Miloch
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
Eh...there's always goin' to be a few bad 'Pope apples' in the Catholic dogma
barrel!
There were many, places doubt on how they claim a Pope is chosen
and if God is in any way involved.
Post by Miloch
*
P+Barker
2021-03-17 10:55:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
Eh...there's always goin' to be a few bad 'Pope apples' in the Catholic dogma
barrel!
There were many, places doubt on how they claim a Pope is chosen
and if God is in any way involved.
They say the same about a newly elected president.
Why do some basketball players make the sign of the cross prior to a
free throw shot?
Why do some sports teams say a prayer prior to their game.
Lots of people say lots of things.
Mattb
2021-03-17 19:10:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
Eh...there's always goin' to be a few bad 'Pope apples' in the Catholic dogma
barrel!
There were many, places doubt on how they claim a Pope is chosen
and if God is in any way involved.
They say the same about a newly elected president.
Who says the president is put in place by God?
Post by P+Barker
Why do some basketball players make the sign of the cross prior to a
free throw shot?
Why do some sports teams say a prayer prior to their game.
Lots of people say lots of things.
You are saying the Popes are no more than sports players? I agree.
P+Barker
2021-03-17 22:32:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
Eh...there's always goin' to be a few bad 'Pope apples' in the Catholic dogma
barrel!
There were many, places doubt on how they claim a Pope is chosen
and if God is in any way involved.
They say the same about a newly elected president.
Who says the president is put in place by God?
Ask any evangelical. Don't ask me.
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Why do some basketball players make the sign of the cross prior to a
free throw shot?
Why do some sports teams say a prayer prior to their game.
Lots of people say lots of things.
You are saying the Popes are no more than sports players? I agree.
<Yawn>
What does the pope do?
What is his job description?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope

The Pope (from Latin: papa; from Greek: ?????? (pappas),[1] a child's
word for father)[2] is the Bishop of Rome, a position that makes him
the leader of the worldwide Catholic Church (which is composed of the
Latin Rite and the Eastern Catholic Churches in full communion with
the see of Rome). The current office-holder is Pope Benedict XVI, who
was elected in a papal conclave on 19 April 2005.

Early popes helped to spread Christianity and resolve doctrinal
disputes.[4] After the conversion of the rulers of the Roman Empire
(the conversion of the populace was already advanced even before the
Edict of Milan, 313), the Roman emperors became the popes' secular
allies until the 8th century when Pope Stephen II was forced to appeal
to the Franks for help,[5] beginning a period of close interaction
with the rulers of the west.
The dogmas and traditions of the Roman Catholic Church teach that the
institution of the papacy was first mandated by interpretations of
several Biblical passages, mainly Matthew 16:13-19:[nb 2]
" "When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he
asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
... And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of
the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art
thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto
thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I also say to you that you
are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of
the netherworld will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys
of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in
heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." "
Catholics believe that this passage shows Jesus establishing his
church on the shoulders of Simon son of John (Peter). Some authorities
have previously asserted that the "rock" Jesus referred to was Jesus
himself or was Peter's faith.[45] The general scholarly consensus is
that this account is accurate, and most modern scholars agree with the
straightforward interpretation that the "rock" Jesus refers to in this
passage is Peter.
Vicar of Jesus Christ" (Vicarius Iesu Christi) is one of the official
titles of the Pope given in the Annuario Pontificio. It is commonly
used in the slightly abbreviated form "Vicar of Christ" (Vicarius
Christi). While it is only one of the terms with which the Pope is
referred to as "vicar", it is "more expressive of his supreme headship
of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of
Christ and with vicarial power derived from him", a vicarial power
believed to have been conferred on Saint Peter when Christ said to
him: "Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep"

The title "Servant of the Servants of God", although used by Church
leaders including St. Augustine and St. Benedict, was first used by
Pope St. Gregory the Great in his dispute with the Patriarch of
Constantinople after the latter assumed the title "Ecumenical
Patriarch". It was not reserved for the pope until the 13th century.
The documents of the Second Vatican Council reinforced the
understanding of this title as a reference to the pope's role as a
function of collegial authority, in which the Bishop of Rome serves
the world's bishops.
The pope's official seat or cathedral is the Basilica of St. John
Lateran, and his official residence is the Palace of the Vatican. He
also possesses a summer residence at Castel Gandolfo, situated on the
site of the ancient city of Alba Longa. Until the time of the Avignon
Papacy, the residence of the Pope was the Lateran Palace, donated by
the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great.
The Pope's ecclesiastical jurisdiction (the Holy See) is distinct from
his secular jurisdiction (Vatican City). It is the Holy See that
conducts international relations; for hundreds of years, the papal
court (the Roman Curia) has functioned as the government of the
Catholic Church.
Gradually forced to give up temporal power, popes now focus almost
exclusively on religious matters.[4] Over the centuries, papal claims
of spiritual authority have been ever more clearly expressed,
culminating in 1870 with the proclamation of the dogma of papal
infallibility for rare occasions when the pope speaks ex cathedra
(literally "from the chair (of St. Peter)") to issue a formal
definition of faith or morals.[4] The first (after the proclamation)
and so far the last such occasion was in 1950, with the definition of
the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.
Mattb
2021-03-17 23:05:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
Eh...there's always goin' to be a few bad 'Pope apples' in the Catholic dogma
barrel!
There were many, places doubt on how they claim a Pope is chosen
and if God is in any way involved.
They say the same about a newly elected president.
Who says the president is put in place by God?
Ask any evangelical. Don't ask me.
I don't believe them if they say they are. A evangelical or the
RCC are most full of shit. Just a slight bit of the truth of Jesus in
each. Much hate and evil in both if history is a example.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Why do some basketball players make the sign of the cross prior to a
free throw shot?
Why do some sports teams say a prayer prior to their game.
Lots of people say lots of things.
You are saying the Popes are no more than sports players? I agree.
<Yawn>
You did not answer the question.

snipped distraction.
P+Barker
2021-03-18 12:14:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Ask any evangelical. Don't ask me.
I don't believe them if they say they are. A evangelical or the
RCC are most full of shit.
Then don't ask them.
Mattb
2021-03-18 16:57:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Ask any evangelical. Don't ask me.
I don't believe them if they say they are. A evangelical or the
RCC are most full of shit.
Then don't ask them.
Sadly you don't need to.
P+Barker
2021-03-16 22:11:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
You jes keep wonderin, matty.
Let us know when you come up with a number.
Mattb
2021-03-16 22:37:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
You jes keep wonderin, matty.
Let us know when you come up with a number.
Relationships with men
Name Reign Relationship Notes
Paul II (1464–1471) Not married. Alleged affair with a page
Thought to have died of indigestion arising from eating melon,[44][45]
though it has been suggested that he died while being sodomised by a
page.[46][47][48]

Sixtus IV (1471–1484) Not married According to Stefano
Infessura, Sixtus was a "lover of boys and sodomites" – awarding
benefices and bishoprics in return for sexual favours, and nominating
a number of young men as cardinals, some of whom were celebrated for
their good looks.[49][50][51] However, Infessura had partisan
allegiances to the Colonna family and so is not considered to be
always reliable or impartial.[52]

Leo X (1513–1521) Not married Accused, after his death, of
homosexuality (by Francesco Guicciardini and Paolo Giovio). It has
been suggested he may have had ulterior motives in offering preferment
to Marcantonio Flaminio.[53]

Julius III (1550–1555) Not married. Alleged affair with
Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte Alleged to have had a long love affair
with Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte which was a cause of public scandal.
The Venetian ambassador at that time reported that Innocenzo shared
the pope's bed.[54]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes#Relationships_with_women_and_men

Looks like many Popes were hypocrites.
P+Barker
2021-03-17 10:56:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
You jes keep wonderin, matty.
Let us know when you come up with a number.
Relationships with men
Name Reign Relationship Notes
Paul II (1464–1471) Not married. Alleged affair with a page
Thought to have died of indigestion arising from eating melon,[44][45]
though it has been suggested that he died while being sodomised by a
page.[46][47][48]
Sixtus IV (1471–1484) Not married According to Stefano
Infessura, Sixtus was a "lover of boys and sodomites" – awarding
benefices and bishoprics in return for sexual favours, and nominating
a number of young men as cardinals, some of whom were celebrated for
their good looks.[49][50][51] However, Infessura had partisan
allegiances to the Colonna family and so is not considered to be
always reliable or impartial.[52]
Leo X (1513–1521) Not married Accused, after his death, of
homosexuality (by Francesco Guicciardini and Paolo Giovio). It has
been suggested he may have had ulterior motives in offering preferment
to Marcantonio Flaminio.[53]
Julius III (1550–1555) Not married. Alleged affair with
Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte Alleged to have had a long love affair
with Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte which was a cause of public scandal.
The Venetian ambassador at that time reported that Innocenzo shared
the pope's bed.[54]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes#Relationships_with_women_and_men
Looks like many Popes were hypocrites.
Well then, now you can stop wondering about this.
Mattb
2021-03-18 20:16:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
You jes keep wonderin, matty.
Let us know when you come up with a number.
Relationships with men
Name Reign Relationship Notes
Paul II (1464–1471) Not married. Alleged affair with a page
Thought to have died of indigestion arising from eating melon,[44][45]
though it has been suggested that he died while being sodomised by a
page.[46][47][48]
Sixtus IV (1471–1484) Not married According to Stefano
Infessura, Sixtus was a "lover of boys and sodomites" – awarding
benefices and bishoprics in return for sexual favours, and nominating
a number of young men as cardinals, some of whom were celebrated for
their good looks.[49][50][51] However, Infessura had partisan
allegiances to the Colonna family and so is not considered to be
always reliable or impartial.[52]
Leo X (1513–1521) Not married Accused, after his death, of
homosexuality (by Francesco Guicciardini and Paolo Giovio). It has
been suggested he may have had ulterior motives in offering preferment
to Marcantonio Flaminio.[53]
Julius III (1550–1555) Not married. Alleged affair with
Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte Alleged to have had a long love affair
with Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte which was a cause of public scandal.
The Venetian ambassador at that time reported that Innocenzo shared
the pope's bed.[54]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes#Relationships_with_women_and_men
Looks like many Popes were hypocrites.
Well then, now you can stop wondering about this.
Most organized religions are hypocritical.
P+Barker
2021-03-18 23:39:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
You jes keep wonderin, matty.
Let us know when you come up with a number.
Relationships with men
Name Reign Relationship Notes
Paul II (1464–1471) Not married. Alleged affair with a page
Thought to have died of indigestion arising from eating melon,[44][45]
though it has been suggested that he died while being sodomised by a
page.[46][47][48]
Sixtus IV (1471–1484) Not married According to Stefano
Infessura, Sixtus was a "lover of boys and sodomites" – awarding
benefices and bishoprics in return for sexual favours, and nominating
a number of young men as cardinals, some of whom were celebrated for
their good looks.[49][50][51] However, Infessura had partisan
allegiances to the Colonna family and so is not considered to be
always reliable or impartial.[52]
Leo X (1513–1521) Not married Accused, after his death, of
homosexuality (by Francesco Guicciardini and Paolo Giovio). It has
been suggested he may have had ulterior motives in offering preferment
to Marcantonio Flaminio.[53]
Julius III (1550–1555) Not married. Alleged affair with
Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte Alleged to have had a long love affair
with Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte which was a cause of public scandal.
The Venetian ambassador at that time reported that Innocenzo shared
the pope's bed.[54]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes#Relationships_with_women_and_men
Looks like many Popes were hypocrites.
Well then, now you can stop wondering about this.
Most organized religions are hypocritical.
Is this something else you wonder about?
Tell us more.
Mattb
2021-03-19 02:04:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
You jes keep wonderin, matty.
Let us know when you come up with a number.
Relationships with men
Name Reign Relationship Notes
Paul II (1464–1471) Not married. Alleged affair with a page
Thought to have died of indigestion arising from eating melon,[44][45]
though it has been suggested that he died while being sodomised by a
page.[46][47][48]
Sixtus IV (1471–1484) Not married According to Stefano
Infessura, Sixtus was a "lover of boys and sodomites" – awarding
benefices and bishoprics in return for sexual favours, and nominating
a number of young men as cardinals, some of whom were celebrated for
their good looks.[49][50][51] However, Infessura had partisan
allegiances to the Colonna family and so is not considered to be
always reliable or impartial.[52]
Leo X (1513–1521) Not married Accused, after his death, of
homosexuality (by Francesco Guicciardini and Paolo Giovio). It has
been suggested he may have had ulterior motives in offering preferment
to Marcantonio Flaminio.[53]
Julius III (1550–1555) Not married. Alleged affair with
Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte Alleged to have had a long love affair
with Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte which was a cause of public scandal.
The Venetian ambassador at that time reported that Innocenzo shared
the pope's bed.[54]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes#Relationships_with_women_and_men
Looks like many Popes were hypocrites.
Well then, now you can stop wondering about this.
Most organized religions are hypocritical.
Is this something else you wonder about?
No that is a fact nothing to wonder about.

Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Post by P+Barker
Tell us more.
P+Barker
2021-03-19 12:02:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Mattb
2021-03-19 17:55:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
P+Barker
2021-03-19 19:57:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Robert
2021-03-19 20:53:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future demand it not of others.
P+Barker
2021-03-19 23:23:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future demand it not of others.
OK.
I must say that I usually don't ask troll questions though.
My questions are usually specific concerning a false statement or
belief of the other person.
Robert
2021-03-20 00:20:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future demand it not of others.
OK.
I must say that I usually don't ask troll questions though.
My questions are usually specific concerning a false statement or
belief of the other person.
You demand like a parrot as part of your harassment policies, who are you trying to kid.
P+Barker
2021-03-20 12:28:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future demand it not of others.
OK.
I must say that I usually don't ask troll questions though.
My questions are usually specific concerning a false statement or
belief of the other person.
You demand like a parrot as part of your harassment policies, who are you trying to kid.
If my specific questions sound like a parrot, maybe many others ALSO
want to know what kind of bull shit you are peddling.
Robert
2021-03-20 15:56:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future demand it not of others.
OK.
I must say that I usually don't ask troll questions though.
My questions are usually specific concerning a false statement or
belief of the other person.
You demand like a parrot as part of your harassment policies, who are you trying to kid.
If my specific questions sound like a parrot, maybe many others ALSO
want to know what kind of bull shit you are peddling.
What you did not recognize is that you frequently parrot your question. IOW ask it after ever paragraph or sentence. Insisting and demanding like a child that you have others bow down to you, yet you will not answer others, and when you do, you usually use the words of others that you do not even understand, even the words of those who oppose your traditional beliefs, as if you were being genuine.

Like Biden you cannot even reply with a continuity of thought.
P+Barker
2021-03-20 20:15:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
I must say that I usually don't ask troll questions though.
My questions are usually specific concerning a false statement or
belief of the other person.
You demand like a parrot as part of your harassment policies, who are you trying to kid.
If my specific questions sound like a parrot, maybe many others ALSO
want to know what kind of bull shit you are peddling.
What you did not recognize is that you frequently parrot your question. IOW ask it after ever paragraph or sentence.
Maybe I'm trying to get your attention and am asking a question that I
know you will refuse to answer.
Post by Robert
Insisting and demanding like a child that you have others bow down to you,
When have I ever done that?
Methinks you are straying off the subject.
Ad hominem.
Post by Robert
yet you will not answer others, and when you do, you usually use the words of others that you do not even understand, even the words of those who oppose your traditional beliefs, as if you were being genuine.
Just because you don't like specific answers - doesn't mean I dn't
understand what I am posting. You - like many others - want me to use
my own words. Well..... I would much rather give you the answers that
have been used hundreds of times to trolls like you.
If you really want to know something, I will tell you.
And it will usually come from a source who knows how to say it better
than me. I admit I am not the most eleoquesnt person in the world.
And I do NOT know all the answers. However I know where to find the
answers that you require. Unfortunately, you haven't learned yet that
if you can't stand the answer, don't ask the question.
Post by Robert
Like Biden you cannot even reply with a continuity of thought.
If you have further questions to me, ask.
That is what I am here for.
Answer questions about my religion.
And... confront jerk-offs who lie about my faith, doctrine or dogma.
Robert
2021-03-20 22:31:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
I must say that I usually don't ask troll questions though.
My questions are usually specific concerning a false statement or
belief of the other person.
You demand like a parrot as part of your harassment policies, who are you trying to kid.
If my specific questions sound like a parrot, maybe many others ALSO
want to know what kind of bull shit you are peddling.
What you did not recognize is that you frequently parrot your question. IOW ask it after ever paragraph or sentence.
Maybe I'm trying to get your attention and am asking a question that I
know you will refuse to answer.
Post by Robert
Insisting and demanding like a child that you have others bow down to you,
When have I ever done that?
Methinks you are straying off the subject.
Ad hominem.
Post by Robert
yet you will not answer others, and when you do, you usually use the words of others that you do not even understand, even the words of those who oppose your traditional beliefs, as if you were being genuine.
Just because you don't like specific answers - doesn't mean I dn't
understand what I am posting. You - like many others - want me to use
my own words. Well..... I would much rather give you the answers that
have been used hundreds of times to trolls like you.
If you really want to know something, I will tell you.
And it will usually come from a source who knows how to say it better
than me. I admit I am not the most eleoquesnt person in the world.
And I do NOT know all the answers. However I know where to find the
answers that you require. Unfortunately, you haven't learned yet that
if you can't stand the answer, don't ask the question.
Post by Robert
Like Biden you cannot even reply with a continuity of thought.
If you have further questions to me, ask.
That is what I am here for.
Answer questions about my religion.
And... confront jerk-offs who lie about my faith, doctrine or dogma.
Ted
2021-03-19 23:57:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future
demand it not of others.
He's right, dumbass. Can't you read?
Robert
2021-03-20 00:23:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future
demand it not of others.
He's right, dumbass. Can't you read?
Does it matter who is right here? He refused to supply to others what he demands of them. That makes him a hypocrite. One of these days you might get it.
Ted
2021-03-20 00:58:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by Ted
Post by Robert
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:55:55 -0700,
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 08:02:27 -0400, P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Robert
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future
demand it not of others.
He's right, dumbass. Can't you read?
Does it matter who is right here? He
refused to supply to others what he
demands of them. That makes him a
hypocrite. One of these days you might ge
it.
Nope. Patrick's a decent fellow. But you're a bit questionable.
Robert
2021-03-20 03:20:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Robert
Post by Ted
Post by Robert
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:55:55 -0700,
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 08:02:27 -0400, P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable
facts
Post by Robert
Post by Ted
and
Post by Robert
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future
demand it not of others.
He's right, dumbass. Can't you read?
Does it matter who is right here? He
refused to supply to others what he
demands of them. That makes him a
hypocrite. One of these days you might ge
it.
Nope. Patrick's a decent fellow. But you're a bit questionable.
Well that undoubtedly will make Pat feel vindicated. :)
But I am not in any contest, real of fictitious.
Ted
2021-03-20 08:46:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by Ted
Post by Robert
Post by Ted
Post by Robert
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:55:55 -0700,
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 08:02:27 -0400, P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on
provable
Post by Robert
Post by Ted
facts
Post by Robert
Post by Ted
and
Post by Robert
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future
demand it not of others.
He's right, dumbass. Can't you read?
Does it matter who is right here? He
refused to supply to others what he
demands of them. That makes him a
hypocrite. One of these days you might ge
it.
Nope. Patrick's a decent fellow. But you're a bit questionable.
Well that undoubtedly will make Pat feel
vindicated. :)
But I am not in any contest, real of
fictitious.
True. But this is Usenet.
P+Barker
2021-03-20 12:30:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by Ted
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Hypocrite of the lowest order. In the future
demand it not of others.
He's right, dumbass. Can't you read?
Does it matter who is right here? He refused to supply to others what he demands of them. That makes him a hypocrite. One of these days you might get it.
\
Patrick does not answer troll questions.
Let me help you out here....
Did your mother ever punish you for playing in her bra drawer?

Answer this with a yes or not.
Mattb
2021-03-19 23:17:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?

By your response doubt, you have either.
P+Barker
2021-03-19 23:23:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Robert
2021-03-20 00:25:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Given your immense size we all know that to be wrong.
P+Barker
2021-03-20 12:32:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Given your immense size we all know that to be wrong.
You know who I am.
Why are you afraid to tell us who you are?
Tell us about your failed marriage, your lousy career.
Why are you afraid?
Mattb
2021-03-20 18:13:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Given your immense size we all know that to be wrong.
You know who I am.
Why are you afraid to tell us who you are?
Tell us about your failed marriage, your lousy career.
Why are you afraid?
Patrick Barker is that all you have to defend your RCC personal
attacks? Why not use logic and reason as if you could.

Patrick Barker why don't you just make shit up as you did with me.

Patrick Barker fears logic and reason when applied to his religion,
and let us not forget historical evidence.
P+Barker
2021-03-20 20:25:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Given your immense size we all know that to be wrong.
You know who I am.
Why are you afraid to tell us who you are?
Tell us about your failed marriage, your lousy career.
Why are you afraid?
Patrick Barker is that all you have to defend your RCC personal
attacks? Why not use logic and reason as if you could.
WHen jerks like you lie about my religion, I always try to find out
why you do this. And who are you to mock me, my relgion, my faith, my
beliefs? I usually find that you trolls try to keep your identities
hidden because you really have something to hide. You know this. I
have told you this many times before.
Post by Mattb
Patrick Barker why don't you just make shit up as you did with me.
robt is another "fun" guy like you.
He changes positions, pretends to be holier than you, wants to be
Christ-like, but slips up and uses insults when someone touches a
nerve with him.
Post by Mattb
Patrick Barker fears logic and reason when applied to his religion,
and let us not forget historical evidence.
History is history.
What some evil men did 100 years ago does not infect my life.
I know what is right and what is wrong.
It is always humerous when I watch you "fun" guys try to remind people
of what happened a long time ago. As if... As if you actually think I
might wish to defend some evil things done by some evil person.

That is why I remind you of larry when you try to pin me down on
something some priest did or said a while ago. I am not that person.
And I will not defend them. You just don't get it. When you whine
about something some priest did, do you really want me to defend it?
Why? Do you defnd larry?

Grow up.
Robert
2021-03-20 23:40:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Given your immense size we all know that to be wrong.
You know who I am.
Why are you afraid to tell us who you are?
Tell us about your failed marriage, your lousy career.
Why are you afraid?
Patrick Barker is that all you have to defend your RCC personal
attacks? Why not use logic and reason as if you could.
WHen jerks like you lie about my religion, I always try to find out
why you do this. And who are you to mock me, my relgion, my faith, my
beliefs? I usually find that you trolls try to keep your identities
hidden because you really have something to hide. You know this. I
have told you this many times before.
Post by Mattb
Patrick Barker why don't you just make shit up as you did with me.
robt is another "fun" guy like you.
He changes positions, pretends to be holier than you, wants to be
Christ-like, but slips up and uses insults when someone touches a
nerve with him.
Post by Mattb
Patrick Barker fears logic and reason when applied to his religion,
and let us not forget historical evidence.
History is history.
What some evil men did 100 years ago does not infect my life.
I know what is right and what is wrong.
It is always humerous when I watch you "fun" guys try to remind people
of what happened a long time ago. As if... As if you actually think I
might wish to defend some evil things done by some evil person.
That is why I remind you of larry when you try to pin me down on
something some priest did or said a while ago. I am not that person.
And I will not defend them. You just don't get it. When you whine
about something some priest did, do you really want me to defend it?
Why? Do you defnd larry?
Grow up.
You defend fallen priests and popes all the time, as to your being insulted? You feel insulted when no one was even close to trying to insult you, you feel insulted if someone were to ask you if you liked tacos.
P+Barker
2021-03-21 13:00:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
You defend fallen priests and popes all the time, as to your being insulted? You feel insulted when no one was even close to trying to insult you, you feel insulted if someone were to ask you if you liked tacos.
Stop being a child.
Grow up.
I have never defended any sinner.
I sometimes will explain that history cannot be changed.
It happened. I refuse to defend it.
BTW, I like tacos.
I like fajitas even more.
Robert
2021-03-21 16:16:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
You defend fallen priests and popes all the time, as to your being insulted? You feel insulted when no one was even close to trying to insult you, you feel insulted if someone were to ask you if you liked tacos.
Stop being a child.
Grow up.
I have never defended any sinner.
I sometimes will explain that history cannot be changed.
It happened. I refuse to defend it.
BTW, I like tacos.
I like fajitas even more.
LOL, you don't even have the slightest idea of what Mexican food is. And a fajitas, and Burritos are not Mexican. They are American.
Miloch
2021-03-21 16:32:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
Post by Robert
You defend fallen priests and popes all the time, as to your being insulted?
You feel insulted when no one was even close to trying to insult you, you feel
insulted if someone were to ask you if you liked tacos.
Stop being a child.
Grow up.
I have never defended any sinner.
I sometimes will explain that history cannot be changed.
It happened. I refuse to defend it.
BTW, I like tacos.
I like fajitas even more.
LOL, you don't even have the slightest idea of what Mexican food is. And a
fajitas, and Burritos are not Mexican. They are American.
Fajita is Tex-Mex, Texan-Mexican American....burrito is a dish in Mexican and
Tex-Mex cuisine...and currently the national meal in the "shit-hole" country of
Taco Bell (not that there's anything wrong with that!).




*
Mattb
2021-03-21 17:54:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Robert
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Given your immense size we all know that to be wrong.
You know who I am.
Why are you afraid to tell us who you are?
Tell us about your failed marriage, your lousy career.
Why are you afraid?
Patrick Barker is that all you have to defend your RCC personal
attacks? Why not use logic and reason as if you could.
WHen jerks like you lie about my religion, I always try to find out
why you do this.
Yet is what is posted about the RCC lies or just inconvenient truths.
Post by P+Barker
And who are you to mock me, my relgion, my faith, my
beliefs?
Mock you that would be a yes, after your BS about being a weapons
master and how you were going to come to visit me that is. I just
told you I'd be waiting in my yard with my Eagle took you days to
figure out I wasn't talking about a bird. Then you threatened to
visit my kids so yes I had a complete threat assessment done. Turns
out you are not only not a threat but also not a weapons master.

And all that because I asked a question you said was a direct attack
on the RCC

How much of the Old Testament are we required to live by and how do we
know?
http://bit.ly/2ZanPsm

You and Duke both went off and then tried your intimidation
Bullshit, didn't work on me.

As far as your belief that pedophilia is good within the RCC I will
never agree with that. It is never a good thing.
Post by P+Barker
I usually find that you trolls try to keep your identities
hidden because you really have something to hide.
I don't advertise my ID on here. Why should I? You won't find any
dirt on me on here no matter how hard you try there isn't any. If
you had looked for facts other than dirt there was a way to get info,
Rod found it, and instead of using it to further his information on me
tried using it against me allowing me to close that source.

Many people know my first name you never have even been able to find
that. Most know this Larry Brooks you use isn't related to me as I am
not from Washington. The names of those kids you posted were not of my
kids as both of them at the time in college, the name you use for my
wife although what you post changed hasn't been close. What I do for
a living you have said I was a Walmart Guard, then Target, then a cop.
All those were lies as well. Those people I have respect for, they are
making a living for their families, they deserve as much respect as
some mediocre paper pusher in the Air Force.
Post by P+Barker
You know this. I
have told you this many times before.
Patrick, you seem to be unable to provide factual evidence to debate
what I post. All you have is ad hominem of a fictional type.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Patrick Barker why don't you just make shit up as you did with me.
robt is another "fun" guy like you.
You said above that it was "mock me, my religion, my faith, my
beliefs?" you consider that fun?
Post by P+Barker
He changes positions, pretends to be holier than you, wants to be
Christ-like, but slips up and uses insults when someone touches a
nerve with him.
We are Human. My views on things can change from time to time but
that requires someone to convince me with evidence and truth.
Something your religion sorely lacks as you are weak in knowledge on
it.
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Patrick Barker fears logic and reason when applied to his religion,
and let us not forget historical evidence.
History is history.
What some evil men did 100 years ago does not infect my life.
Is that what you were taught in a Catholic school because Jesus was
from 2000 years ago Catholic traditions supersede his words? That
would explain much as with your support of pedophilia.
Post by P+Barker
I know what is right and what is wrong.
Pedophilia is wrong.
Post by P+Barker
It is always humerous when I watch you "fun" guys try to remind people
of what happened a long time ago. As if... As if you actually think I
might wish to defend some evil things done by some evil person.
Yet you do so by lying about the poster even when they did not write
the article posted. You've even attacked articles written by a
Catholic news source by attacking the poster.
Post by P+Barker
That is why I remind you of larry when you try to pin me down on
something some priest did or said a while ago.
Yet that is an example of your lying......when pinned down ;-0)
Post by P+Barker
I am not that person.
And I will not defend them. You just don't get it. When you whine
about something some priest did, do you really want me to defend it?
The why the lies?
Post by P+Barker
Why? Do you defnd larry?
Again another example of your lying. Sad your belief system is so
full of lies and pedophilia and has a history of murder over a
millennium long.
Post by P+Barker
Grow up.
Mattb
2021-03-20 17:59:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Patrick both you and your belief system are a fraud.
P+Barker
2021-03-20 20:25:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Patrick both you and your belief system are a fraud.
Prove it.
Show me that you are better than me.
Mattb
2021-03-21 17:55:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Patrick both you and your belief system are a fraud.
Prove it.
Show me that you are better than me.
Then you are asking me to repost all the articles I have in the past
including those on history?
tesla sTinker
2021-03-21 19:12:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
No. Your need to know is not a problem of mine.
Well, it isn't the Church of the perverts and killers the RCC that is
for sure. I've never seen any that is based on provable facts and not
on power, greed, and lies?
By your response doubt, you have either.
I try not to give trolls fodder.
Patrick both you and your belief system are a fraud.
Prove it.
Show me that you are better than me.
Then you are asking me to repost all the articles I have in the past
including those on history?
oh, he wants repost,,, no where does it claim in the true Holy Bible,
or, in the true Catholic Church records, that your supposed to treat
Sodomy and Gomorrah's with respect and sensitivity. That makes the no
pope a liar. Anyone who treats him as if he is a pope, that makes them
full of the same thing. Its called, Sacrilege.

sac•ri•lege \"sa-kre-lij\ noun [ME, fr. MF, fr. L sacrilegium, fr.
sacrilegus one who steals sacred things, fr. sacr-, sacer + legere to
gather, steal — more at legend] (14c)
1 : a technical and not necessarily intrinsically outrageous violation
(as improper reception of a sacrament) of what is sacred because
consecrated to God
2 : gross irreverence toward a hallowed person, place, or thing
(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All
rights reserved

And I can show you and already have showed you false bishop Pat B, where
you are and have been, excommunicated by God Himself. Yes, in the Holy
Bible.

Just this post right here, burys your ass all about it. And this
includes your false pope, antichrist he is. Same as you, and the
other one JPII that had his throat sliced on passion sunday, then he
died. Exactly according to the psalms of that time period in the calendar.
Ted
2021-03-19 23:56:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts and
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
Robert
2021-03-20 00:26:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
Is that a new name for Gay noodles?
Ted
2021-03-20 01:14:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by Ted
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
Is that a new name for Gay noodles?
Oh, I see what you mean. Heh.
Mattb
2021-03-20 18:03:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
I'd prefer Bacon.
Ted
2021-03-20 18:10:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Ted
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable
facts
Post by Mattb
Post by Ted
and
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
I'd prefer Bacon.
True.
Miloch
2021-03-20 20:00:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Ted
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
I'd prefer Bacon.
When it comes to pasta, there's only worth considering...

Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. A staple in my parents household for two
generations!...and I'm happy to admit, I have a box at home ready and waiting
for the macaroni to boil and be sprinkled with their artificial Trump
Face-Orange cheese powder.







*
P+Barker
2021-03-20 20:27:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Miloch
Post by Mattb
Post by Ted
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
I'd prefer Bacon.
When it comes to pasta, there's only worth considering...
Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. A staple in my parents household for two
generations!...and I'm happy to admit, I have a box at home ready and waiting
for the macaroni to boil and be sprinkled with their artificial Trump
Face-Orange cheese powder.
Actually, I hate opening a cardboard box up and find it stuffed with
macaroni - not inside a plastic sleeve. I don't wish to taste
cardbord.
Miloch
2021-03-20 20:57:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Post by Mattb
Post by Ted
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
I'd prefer Bacon.
When it comes to pasta, there's only worth considering...
Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. A staple in my parents household for two
generations!...and I'm happy to admit, I have a box at home ready and waiting
for the macaroni to boil and be sprinkled with their artificial Trump
Face-Orange cheese powder.
Actually, I hate opening a cardboard box up and find it stuffed with
macaroni - not inside a plastic sleeve. I don't wish to taste
cardbord.
Try boiling it first, Barker. The instructions are on the side of the box!



*
P+Barker
2021-03-21 13:01:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Post by Mattb
Post by Ted
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
I'd prefer Bacon.
When it comes to pasta, there's only worth considering...
Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. A staple in my parents household for two
generations!...and I'm happy to admit, I have a box at home ready and waiting
for the macaroni to boil and be sprinkled with their artificial Trump
Face-Orange cheese powder.
Actually, I hate opening a cardboard box up and find it stuffed with
macaroni - not inside a plastic sleeve. I don't wish to taste
cardbord.
Try boiling it first, Barker. The instructions are on the side of the box!
Good answer. Good answer. I'll try to remember that.
Mattb
2021-03-21 17:58:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Miloch
Post by Mattb
Post by Ted
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
Do you know of a organized religion based on provable facts
and
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
not on power, greed and lies?
Yes.
Name it.
Pastafarian.
I'd prefer Bacon.
When it comes to pasta, there's only worth considering...
Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. A staple in my parents household for two
generations!...and I'm happy to admit, I have a box at home ready and waiting
for the macaroni to boil and be sprinkled with their artificial Trump
Face-Orange cheese powder.
You've ruined Mac and cheese now when I see it I will remember Trump
Face-Orange cheese powder and regurgitate it.

I like the Bacon can get the bacon and then Visit Vegas.
Post by Miloch
*
Miloch
2021-03-16 22:51:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
You jes keep wonderin, matty.
Let us know when you come up with a number.
...gotta be somewhere between just a handful and almost all of 'em.



*
P+Barker
2021-03-17 10:56:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Mattb
Post by Miloch
Post by P+Barker
Post by Miloch
Francis has always voiced opposition to gay marriage, saying that marriage
should only be between a man and woman.
Just as God has proclaimed!
Too bad the Pope doesn't feel the same way about Catholic priests under-age
sexual abuse...
*
I've always wondered how many Popes were pedophiles.
You jes keep wonderin, matty.
Let us know when you come up with a number.
...gotta be somewhere between just a handful and almost all of 'em.
The same number of your dead brain cells?
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