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Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
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edonline
2007-08-17 12:41:35 UTC
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc

Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET

Merv Griffin was gay.

Why should that be so uncomfortable to read? Why is it so difficult to
write? Why are we still so jittery even about raising the issue in
purportedly liberal-minded Hollywood, in 2007?

Griffin, who died of prostate cancer Sunday at 82, stayed in the closet
throughout his life. Perhaps he figured it was preferable to remain the
object of gossip rather than live openly as "one of them."

But how tremendously sad it is that a man of Merv's renown, of his
gregarious nature and social dexterity, would feel compelled to endure such
a stealthy double life even as the gay community's clout, and its levels of
acceptance and equality, rose steadily from the ashes of ignorance.

What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.

I had more than a passing acquaintance with him, having worked on "The Merv
Griffin Show" as a talent coordinator/segment producer in 1985-86 as the
show was winding down. Around the office, Merv's being gay was understood
but rarely discussed (and certainly never with him). We knew nothing of his
relationships because he guarded his privacy fiercely, and we didn't pry.

Merv's secret gay life was widely known throughout showbiz culture, if not
the wider America. It gained traction in 1991 when he was targeted in a pair
of lawsuits: by "Dance Fever" host Denny Terrio, alleging sexual harassment;
and by assistant Brent Plott seeking $200 million in palimony. Both
ultimately were dismissed.

Over the past 16 years of his life, however, Griffin deflected the sexuality
questions with a quip, determining that his private life remained nobody's
business. He certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to
himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind
throughout his adult life. Then again, Merv carved his niche in the
entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't OK, when disclosure was
unthinkable and the allegation alone could deep-six one's career.

If you're Griffin, why would you think a judgmental culture would be any
more tolerant as you grew into middle and old age? Even in the capital of
entertainment -- in a business where homosexuality isn't exactly a rare
phenomenon -- it's still spoken of in hushed tones or, more often, not at
all. And Merv's brush with tabloid scandal no doubt only drove him further
into the closet.

While it would seem everything has changed today, little actually has. You
can count on the fingers of one hand, or at most two, the number of
high-powered stars, executives and public figures who have come out. Those
who don't can't really be faulted, as rarely do honesty and full disclosure
prove a boon to one's showbiz livelihood.

Nonetheless, the elephant that was his sexual orientation never really
stopped following Griffin from room to room. He could duck it for a while,
but it would always find him. It's disheartening that Merv had to die to
shake it for good.

Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Noel
2007-08-17 12:59:56 UTC
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Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
Merv Griffin was gay.
Why should that be so uncomfortable to read? Why is it so difficult to
write? Why are we still so jittery even about raising the issue in
purportedly liberal-minded Hollywood, in 2007?
Griffin, who died of prostate cancer Sunday at 82, stayed in the closet
throughout his life. Perhaps he figured it was preferable to remain the
object of gossip rather than live openly as "one of them."
But how tremendously sad it is that a man of Merv's renown, of his
gregarious nature and social dexterity, would feel compelled to endure such
a stealthy double life even as the gay community's clout, and its levels of
acceptance and equality, rose steadily from the ashes of ignorance.
What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.
I had more than a passing acquaintance with him, having worked on "The Merv
Griffin Show" as a talent coordinator/segment producer in1985-86as the
show was winding down. Around the office, Merv's being gay was understood
but rarely discussed (and certainly never with him). We knew nothing of his
relationships because he guarded his privacy fiercely, and we didn't pry.
Merv's secret gay life was widely known throughout showbiz culture, if not
the wider America. It gained traction in 1991 when he was targeted in a pair
of lawsuits: by "Dance Fever" host Denny Terrio, alleging sexual harassment;
and by assistant Brent Plott seeking $200 million in palimony. Both
ultimately were dismissed.
Over the past 16 years of his life, however, Griffin deflected the sexuality
questions with a quip, determining that his private life remained nobody's
business. He certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to
himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind
throughout his adult life. Then again, Merv carved his niche in the
entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't OK, when disclosure was
unthinkable and the allegation alone could deep-six one's career.
If you're Griffin, why would you think a judgmental culture would be any
more tolerant as you grew into middle and old age? Even in the capital of
entertainment -- in a business where homosexuality isn't exactly a rare
phenomenon -- it's still spoken of in hushed tones or, more often, not at
all. And Merv's brush with tabloid scandal no doubt only drove him further
into the closet.
While it would seem everything has changed today, little actually has. You
can count on the fingers of one hand, or at most two, the number of
high-powered stars, executives and public figures who have come out. Those
who don't can't really be faulted, as rarely do honesty and full disclosure
prove a boon to one's showbiz livelihood.
Nonetheless, the elephant that was his sexual orientation never really
stopped following Griffin from room to room. He could duck it for a while,
but it would always find him. It's disheartening that Merv had to die to
shake it for good.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Feel better:)
edonline
2007-08-17 13:05:10 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Noel
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
Merv Griffin was gay.
Why should that be so uncomfortable to read? Why is it so difficult to
write? Why are we still so jittery even about raising the issue in
purportedly liberal-minded Hollywood, in 2007?
Griffin, who died of prostate cancer Sunday at 82, stayed in the closet
throughout his life. Perhaps he figured it was preferable to remain the
object of gossip rather than live openly as "one of them."
But how tremendously sad it is that a man of Merv's renown, of his
gregarious nature and social dexterity, would feel compelled to endure such
a stealthy double life even as the gay community's clout, and its levels of
acceptance and equality, rose steadily from the ashes of ignorance.
What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.
I had more than a passing acquaintance with him, having worked on "The Merv
Griffin Show" as a talent coordinator/segment producer in1985-86as the
show was winding down. Around the office, Merv's being gay was understood
but rarely discussed (and certainly never with him). We knew nothing of his
relationships because he guarded his privacy fiercely, and we didn't pry.
Merv's secret gay life was widely known throughout showbiz culture, if not
the wider America. It gained traction in 1991 when he was targeted in a pair
of lawsuits: by "Dance Fever" host Denny Terrio, alleging sexual harassment;
and by assistant Brent Plott seeking $200 million in palimony. Both
ultimately were dismissed.
Over the past 16 years of his life, however, Griffin deflected the sexuality
questions with a quip, determining that his private life remained nobody's
business. He certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to
himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind
throughout his adult life. Then again, Merv carved his niche in the
entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't OK, when disclosure was
unthinkable and the allegation alone could deep-six one's career.
If you're Griffin, why would you think a judgmental culture would be any
more tolerant as you grew into middle and old age? Even in the capital of
entertainment -- in a business where homosexuality isn't exactly a rare
phenomenon -- it's still spoken of in hushed tones or, more often, not at
all. And Merv's brush with tabloid scandal no doubt only drove him further
into the closet.
While it would seem everything has changed today, little actually has. You
can count on the fingers of one hand, or at most two, the number of
high-powered stars, executives and public figures who have come out. Those
who don't can't really be faulted, as rarely do honesty and full disclosure
prove a boon to one's showbiz livelihood.
Nonetheless, the elephant that was his sexual orientation never really
stopped following Griffin from room to room. He could duck it for a while,
but it would always find him. It's disheartening that Merv had to die to
shake it for good.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Feel better:)
I don't particularly care one way or another. I think it was surprising
that Reuters, the Hollywood Reporter and Yahoo would carry such an item
though.
Mr. Potato Head
2007-08-17 15:39:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by edonline
I don't particularly care one way or another. I think it was surprising
that Reuters, the Hollywood Reporter and Yahoo would carry such an item
though>
That's what I was thinking as I read it, too. It's cheap, it's
vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.
Merv Griffin was not a controversial figure, he wasn't a celebrity,
and he wasn't political. He didn't deserve this and those two
asswipes, the editor and writer, should be fired.
Deborah
2007-08-17 18:14:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:39:21 -0700, "Mr. Potato Head"
Post by Mr. Potato Head
Post by edonline
I don't particularly care one way or another. I think it was surprising
that Reuters, the Hollywood Reporter and Yahoo would carry such an item
though>
That's what I was thinking as I read it, too. It's cheap, it's
vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.
Merv Griffin was not a controversial figure, he wasn't a celebrity,
and he wasn't political. He didn't deserve this and those two
asswipes, the editor and writer, should be fired.
I respect people who keep their privately lives private. It's widely
believed that Kevin Spacey is gay, but he has never spoken of his
personal life at all. Same with Anderson Cooper. Don't tell me they
closeted. They are simply public figures who keep their personal
lives private, and probably would even if they were het.

Deborah
Bigolhomo
2007-08-18 01:29:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Deborah
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:39:21 -0700, "Mr. Potato Head"
Post by Mr. Potato Head
Post by edonline
I don't particularly care one way or another. I think it was surprising
that Reuters, the Hollywood Reporter and Yahoo would carry such an item
though>
That's what I was thinking as I read it, too. It's cheap, it's
vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.
Merv Griffin was not a controversial figure, he wasn't a celebrity,
and he wasn't political. He didn't deserve this and those two
asswipes, the editor and writer, should be fired.
I respect people who keep their privately lives private. It's widely
believed that Kevin Spacey is gay, but he has never spoken of his
personal life at all. Same with Anderson Cooper. Don't tell me they
closeted. They are simply public figures who keep their personal
lives private, and probably would even if they were het.
Deborah
Acknowledging that you're gay and keeping your private life private
are two different things. There are a lot of heterosexual celebrites
who keep their private lives private, yet don't hide the fact that
they're straight.

Neil Patrick Harris did it the right way a few months ago. He said
that he's a happy gay man and that the rest of his life is private. No
muss, no fuss, no magazine covers, no new activism, he just set the
record straight and continued to live his life the same way he always
did.

Anderson Cooper and Kevin Spacey are still closeted. Especially
Kevin Spacey, I'm pretty sure he's denied it publicly several times.
If they truly weren't closeted then they would have no problem setting
the record straight instead of letting the media continue with all the
"is he or isn't he" bullshit.
--
Bigolhomo
Kris Baker
2007-08-18 01:41:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigolhomo
Post by Deborah
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:39:21 -0700, "Mr. Potato Head"
Post by Mr. Potato Head
Post by edonline
I don't particularly care one way or another. I think it was surprising
that Reuters, the Hollywood Reporter and Yahoo would carry such an item
though>
That's what I was thinking as I read it, too. It's cheap, it's
vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.
Merv Griffin was not a controversial figure, he wasn't a celebrity,
and he wasn't political. He didn't deserve this and those two
asswipes, the editor and writer, should be fired.
I respect people who keep their privately lives private. It's widely
believed that Kevin Spacey is gay, but he has never spoken of his
personal life at all. Same with Anderson Cooper. Don't tell me they
closeted. They are simply public figures who keep their personal
lives private, and probably would even if they were het.
Deborah
Acknowledging that you're gay and keeping your private life private
are two different things. There are a lot of heterosexual celebrites
who keep their private lives private, yet don't hide the fact that
they're straight.
Neil Patrick Harris did it the right way a few months ago. He said
that he's a happy gay man and that the rest of his life is private. No
muss, no fuss, no magazine covers, no new activism, he just set the
record straight and continued to live his life the same way he always
did.
Anderson Cooper and Kevin Spacey are still closeted. Especially
Kevin Spacey, I'm pretty sure he's denied it publicly several times.
If they truly weren't closeted then they would have no problem setting
the record straight instead of letting the media continue with all the
"is he or isn't he" bullshit.
--
Bigolhomo
I've heard Anderson Cooper make little "slips" on the
air......little things like "I'd be affected by that" or "Some
of us really need that" on gay issues (insurance, partner
benefits, etc). I think he's as much admitted it, as he
can. We all know. Like Shep Smith.

Spacey, however, is a joke. He should just get it out.

Kris
k***@ugcorp.com
2007-08-18 02:00:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kris Baker
Spacey, however, is a joke. He should just get it out.
Kris- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Umm, why? Why does Spacey need to get it out? Is there a reason? Is
the fact that he might be gay interesting? Important?

I think I heard that Jamie Pressly drives a Chevy. That's at least
more interesting than Spacey's sexuality.

I love celebrity gossip. I love blind items. It's fun to peak at what
other people DO. But finding entertainment in prying into what other
people ARE is very, very different. I wish everyone would understand
and respect the difference. And I think the vast majority of rank-and-
file Americans really do get this.

Somebody chooses to go out and get drunk and gets arrested, that's
fair game. But someone is born a certain race, raised a certain
religion, or happens to be gay - that shouldn't matter to anyone but
that person, those close to him, and whatever higher being he might
believe exists.

People are what they are. They don't choose that. And we need to learn
how to accept how other people ARE and move on. People's behavior, on
the other hand, is completely under their control and subject to
choice. Therefore, it is open to ridicule, speculation, and use for
our amusement.
jenaiassez
2007-08-18 05:36:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
Post by Kris Baker
Spacey, however, is a joke. He should just get it out.
Kris- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Umm, why? Why does Spacey need to get it out? Is there a reason? Is
the fact that he might be gay interesting? Important?
I think I heard that Jamie Pressly drives a Chevy. That's at least
more interesting than Spacey's sexuality.
I love celebrity gossip. I love blind items. It's fun to peak at what
other people DO. But finding entertainment in prying into what other
people ARE is very, very different. I wish everyone would understand
and respect the difference. And I think the vast majority of rank-and-
file Americans really do get this.
Somebody chooses to go out and get drunk and gets arrested, that's
fair game. But someone is born a certain race, raised a certain
religion, or happens to be gay - that shouldn't matter to anyone but
that person, those close to him, and whatever higher being he might
believe exists.
People are what they are. They don't choose that. And we need to learn
how to accept how other people ARE and move on. People's behavior, on
the other hand, is completely under their control and subject to
choice. Therefore, it is open to ridicule, speculation, and use for
our amusement.
So your saying that it's not fair to question if Spacey is gay, but it is
fair to ask if he's sleeping with other guys?
k***@ugcorp.com
2007-08-18 01:51:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigolhomo
Post by Deborah
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:39:21 -0700, "Mr. Potato Head"
Post by Mr. Potato Head
Post by edonline
I don't particularly care one way or another. I think it was surprising
that Reuters, the Hollywood Reporter and Yahoo would carry such an item
though>
That's what I was thinking as I read it, too. It's cheap, it's
vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.
Merv Griffin was not a controversial figure, he wasn't a celebrity,
and he wasn't political. He didn't deserve this and those two
asswipes, the editor and writer, should be fired.
I respect people who keep their privately lives private. It's widely
believed that Kevin Spacey is gay, but he has never spoken of his
personal life at all. Same with Anderson Cooper. Don't tell me they
closeted. They are simply public figures who keep their personal
lives private, and probably would even if they were het.
Deborah
Acknowledging that you're gay and keeping your private life private
are two different things. There are a lot of heterosexual celebrites
who keep their private lives private, yet don't hide the fact that
they're straight.
Neil Patrick Harris did it the right way a few months ago. He said
that he's a happy gay man and that the rest of his life is private. No
muss, no fuss, no magazine covers, no new activism, he just set the
record straight and continued to live his life the same way he always
did.
Anderson Cooper and Kevin Spacey are still closeted. Especially
Kevin Spacey, I'm pretty sure he's denied it publicly several times.
If they truly weren't closeted then they would have no problem setting
the record straight instead of letting the media continue with all the
"is he or isn't he" bullshit.
--
Bigolhomo- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And why do they owe it to the public to answer the media's irrelevant,
stupid question? Isn't it more dignified to do what they are doing and
just act like it's none of anyone's business and no big deal? Why do
you think in order to be dignified they have to stoop to the level of
the ignorant media that is harping on this. Does America tune out CNN
because they want Anderson Cooper to yell from a bullhorn that he's
gay? Is Kevin Spacey out of work because America won't go see anything
he's in until he clears up the rumors? Of course note. And we all know
how America reacted to that Ellen woman when she came out. Her low
rated show go canceled. Is she doing anything now?

The celebrities-need-to-come-out issue isn't big with the average
American. Why? Because America doesn't care. Only Hollywood - and a
few other bottom-feeders, who usually cloak themselve in religion and
claim large followings that never materialize, whom nobody takes
seriously - makes an issue of whether someone is gay. Why can't
Hollywood just join them in the big who-cares?
Deborah
2007-08-18 02:59:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
And we all know
how America reacted to that Ellen woman when she came out. Her low
rated show go canceled. Is she doing anything now?
Um, she's had her own very successful talk show on TV for a few years
now, and seems to be a contented person.

Deborah
Bigolhomo
2007-08-18 17:45:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
And why do they owe it to the public to answer the media's irrelevant,
stupid question? Isn't it more dignified to do what they are doing and
just act like it's none of anyone's business and no big deal? Why do
you think in order to be dignified they have to stoop to the level of
the ignorant media that is harping on this. Does America tune out CNN
because they want Anderson Cooper to yell from a bullhorn that he's
gay? Is Kevin Spacey out of work because America won't go see anything
he's in until he clears up the rumors? Of course note. And we all know
how America reacted to that Ellen woman when she came out. Her low
rated show go canceled. Is she doing anything now?
The celebrities-need-to-come-out issue isn't big with the average
American. Why? Because America doesn't care. Only Hollywood - and a
few other bottom-feeders, who usually cloak themselve in religion and
claim large followings that never materialize, whom nobody takes
seriously - makes an issue of whether someone is gay. Why can't
Hollywood just join them in the big who-cares?
Because it's not a stupid question. All of these supposedly "non
closeted" in their personal life celebrities who aren't willing to
admit it publicly are just perpetuating the idea that being gay is
something shameful that should stay hidden.

If you're out, you should be out in all aspects of your life. Doesn't
mean you have to march in the pride parade or give the Enquirer all
the details of your sex life, but it means you should just live your
life honestly.
--
Bigolhomo
Deborah
2007-08-18 17:57:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigolhomo
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
And why do they owe it to the public to answer the media's irrelevant,
stupid question? Isn't it more dignified to do what they are doing and
just act like it's none of anyone's business and no big deal? Why do
you think in order to be dignified they have to stoop to the level of
the ignorant media that is harping on this. Does America tune out CNN
because they want Anderson Cooper to yell from a bullhorn that he's
gay? Is Kevin Spacey out of work because America won't go see anything
he's in until he clears up the rumors? Of course note. And we all know
how America reacted to that Ellen woman when she came out. Her low
rated show go canceled. Is she doing anything now?
The celebrities-need-to-come-out issue isn't big with the average
American. Why? Because America doesn't care. Only Hollywood - and a
few other bottom-feeders, who usually cloak themselve in religion and
claim large followings that never materialize, whom nobody takes
seriously - makes an issue of whether someone is gay. Why can't
Hollywood just join them in the big who-cares?
Because it's not a stupid question. All of these supposedly "non
closeted" in their personal life celebrities who aren't willing to
admit it publicly are just perpetuating the idea that being gay is
something shameful that should stay hidden.
If you're out, you should be out in all aspects of your life. Doesn't
mean you have to march in the pride parade or give the Enquirer all
the details of your sex life, but it means you should just live your
life honestly.
May I ask a question? Maybe you see this more in other countries, I
don't know, but where I live I have virtually never seen a same sex
couple walking down the street, arm in arm or hand in hand, or
otherwise engaging in public displays of affection, yet I regularly
see this wth opposite sex couples.

I would bet that if I frequented gay clubs or gay parties, I would see
this sort of thing, but why never in places that don't specifically
cater to same sex couples? Is there still felt to be some sort of
taboo?

I personally would not have much of a reaction if I ever did see this,
other than it being a bit of a novelty.

Deborah
Bigolhomo
2007-08-19 07:09:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Deborah
Post by Bigolhomo
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
And why do they owe it to the public to answer the media's irrelevant,
stupid question? Isn't it more dignified to do what they are doing and
just act like it's none of anyone's business and no big deal? Why do
you think in order to be dignified they have to stoop to the level of
the ignorant media that is harping on this. Does America tune out CNN
because they want Anderson Cooper to yell from a bullhorn that he's
gay? Is Kevin Spacey out of work because America won't go see anything
he's in until he clears up the rumors? Of course note. And we all know
how America reacted to that Ellen woman when she came out. Her low
rated show go canceled. Is she doing anything now?
The celebrities-need-to-come-out issue isn't big with the average
American. Why? Because America doesn't care. Only Hollywood - and a
few other bottom-feeders, who usually cloak themselve in religion and
claim large followings that never materialize, whom nobody takes
seriously - makes an issue of whether someone is gay. Why can't
Hollywood just join them in the big who-cares?
Because it's not a stupid question. All of these supposedly "non
closeted" in their personal life celebrities who aren't willing to
admit it publicly are just perpetuating the idea that being gay is
something shameful that should stay hidden.
If you're out, you should be out in all aspects of your life. Doesn't
mean you have to march in the pride parade or give the Enquirer all
the details of your sex life, but it means you should just live your
life honestly.
May I ask a question? Maybe you see this more in other countries, I
don't know, but where I live I have virtually never seen a same sex
couple walking down the street, arm in arm or hand in hand, or
otherwise engaging in public displays of affection, yet I regularly
see this wth opposite sex couples.
I would bet that if I frequented gay clubs or gay parties, I would see
this sort of thing, but why never in places that don't specifically
cater to same sex couples? Is there still felt to be some sort of
taboo?
I personally would not have much of a reaction if I ever did see this,
other than it being a bit of a novelty.
Deborah
I think it just depends on the area. In some places it would be a
real safety issue for that to happen, some places people would get
dirty looks or snide comments. I'm in Los Angeles so it's hard for me
to say because in most parts of LA it's just no big deal anymore.
--
Bigolhomo
Kyle
2007-08-18 18:11:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Deborah
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:39:21 -0700, "Mr. Potato Head"
Post by Mr. Potato Head
Post by edonline
I don't particularly care one way or another. I think it was surprising
that Reuters, the Hollywood Reporter and Yahoo would carry such an item
though>
That's what I was thinking as I read it, too. It's cheap, it's
vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.
Merv Griffin was not a controversial figure, he wasn't a celebrity,
and he wasn't political. He didn't deserve this and those two
asswipes, the editor and writer, should be fired.
I respect people who keep their privately lives private. It's widely
believed that Kevin Spacey is gay, but he has never spoken of his
personal life at all. Same with Anderson Cooper. Don't tell me they
closeted. They are simply public figures who keep their personal
lives private, and probably would even if they were het.
Kevin Spacey has denied being gay. That's where things get
problematic -- when people lie about their sexuality.
Azrael
2007-08-21 15:23:30 UTC
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Kyle
2007-08-21 15:27:19 UTC
Reply
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Azrael
2007-08-21 16:12:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Kyle
2007-08-21 16:23:51 UTC
Reply
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Wyle Coyote
2007-08-21 17:20:21 UTC
Reply
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Big J
2007-08-21 17:53:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Then what's Spacey doing prowlinggayparks at 4AM? Why does he get
photographed strolling about, arm in arm, with men?
Oh come on, since when are the tabloïds trustworthy sources? Don't
tell me you swallow that shit! Or if you do, you must also believe
that Keanu Reeves secretely married David Geffen, and that a gerbil
makes Richard Gere wiggle his cute bottom, musn't you? :-)
I don't believe Richard Gere has a cute bottom.

Big J

-----

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Wyle Coyote
2007-08-21 17:18:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Sarah Czepiel
2007-08-17 19:03:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:39:21 -0700, "Mr. Potato Head"
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

:> It's cheap, it's vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.

A perfect description for your attacks on the women in this newsgroup.

Archived.
Gregory Morrow
2007-08-18 05:07:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Deborah
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:39:21 -0700, "Mr. Potato Head"
:> It's cheap, it's vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.
A perfect description for your attacks on the women in this newsgroup.
Only YOU, fat - wipe...


--
Best
Greg
Sarah Czepiel
2007-08-19 03:58:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:07:18 -0700, Gregory Morrow
<***@earthlink.net> wrote:

:>FUGLI Sarah screamed:
:>
:>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:39:21 -0700, "Mr. Potato Head"
:>>
:>> <***@gmail.com> wrote:
:>>
:>> :> It's cheap, it's vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.
:>>
:>> A perfect description for your attacks on the women in this newsgroup.
:>
:>
:>Only YOU, fat - wipe...

It describes only his attacks on me? Ok.
Sarah Czepiel
2007-08-17 19:04:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:39:21 -0700, "Mr. Potato Head"
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

:>Merv Griffin was not a controversial figure, he wasn't a celebrity,

Merv Griffin was indeed a celebrity. When did you move to the US?
Regie_Satanis
2007-08-21 18:05:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Aug 17, 8:39 am, "Mr. Potato Head"
Post by Mr. Potato Head
Post by edonline
I don't particularly care one way or another. I think it was surprising
that Reuters, the Hollywood Reporter and Yahoo would carry such an item
though>
That's what I was thinking as I read it, too. It's cheap, it's
vindictive, it's self-involved and it's without any purpose or merit.
Merv Griffin was not a controversial figure, he wasn't a celebrity,
and he wasn't political. He didn't deserve this and those two
asswipes, the editor and writer, should be fired.
Merv Griffin wasn't a celebrity? Could have fooled me. Plus when did
people on gossip site suddenly get so concerned about people's
feelings?
Copasetic
2007-08-19 19:37:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/arts/television/12cnd-griffin.html
From the New York Times:

But he was also dogged by sex scandals and insinuations that he was gay. In
1991, he was sued by Denny Terrio, the host of "Dance Fever," another show
Mr. Griffin created, alleging sexual harassment. The same year, Brent Plott,
a longtime employee who worked as a bodyguard, horse trainer and driver,
filed a $200 million palimony lawsuit. Mr. Griffin characterized both
lawsuits as extortion; ultimately, both suits were dismissed.

Mr. Griffin consistently evaded answering questions about his sexuality. In
a 2005 interview with The New York Times, he said: "I tell everybody that I'm
a quartre-sexual. I will do anything with anybody for a quarter."
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Copasetic
2007-08-19 21:28:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by edonline
What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/04/sunday/main1680104_page2.shtml

In the 1980s he began a long-term relationship with actress Eva Gabor, who's
closet he had visited for his show.

They were together until they she died in 1995. Gabor's death was tough for
Griffin to handle.

"Only because we'd had an argument and we hadn't settled the argument yet
and I was mad and I was off on my boat and she died while I was gone. That
was tough," Griffin says.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Red
2007-08-17 13:00:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
Merv Griffin was gay.
Why should that be so uncomfortable to read? Why is it so difficult to
write? Why are we still so jittery even about raising the issue in
purportedly liberal-minded Hollywood, in 2007?
Griffin, who died of prostate cancer Sunday at 82, stayed in the closet
throughout his life. Perhaps he figured it was preferable to remain the
object of gossip rather than live openly as "one of them."
But how tremendously sad it is that a man of Merv's renown, of his
gregarious nature and social dexterity, would feel compelled to endure such
a stealthy double life even as the gay community's clout, and its levels of
acceptance and equality, rose steadily from the ashes of ignorance.
What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.
I had more than a passing acquaintance with him, having worked on "The Merv
Griffin Show" as a talent coordinator/segment producer in 1985-86 as the
show was winding down. Around the office, Merv's being gay was understood
but rarely discussed (and certainly never with him). We knew nothing of his
relationships because he guarded his privacy fiercely, and we didn't pry.
Merv's secret gay life was widely known throughout showbiz culture, if not
the wider America. It gained traction in 1991 when he was targeted in a pair
of lawsuits: by "Dance Fever" host Denny Terrio, alleging sexual harassment;
and by assistant Brent Plott seeking $200 million in palimony. Both
ultimately were dismissed.
Over the past 16 years of his life, however, Griffin deflected the sexuality
questions with a quip, determining that his private life remained nobody's
business. He certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to
himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind
throughout his adult life. Then again, Merv carved his niche in the
entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't OK, when disclosure was
unthinkable and the allegation alone could deep-six one's career.
If you're Griffin, why would you think a judgmental culture would be any
more tolerant as you grew into middle and old age? Even in the capital of
entertainment -- in a business where homosexuality isn't exactly a rare
phenomenon -- it's still spoken of in hushed tones or, more often, not at
all. And Merv's brush with tabloid scandal no doubt only drove him further
into the closet.
While it would seem everything has changed today, little actually has. You
can count on the fingers of one hand, or at most two, the number of
high-powered stars, executives and public figures who have come out. Those
who don't can't really be faulted, as rarely do honesty and full disclosure
prove a boon to one's showbiz livelihood.
Nonetheless, the elephant that was his sexual orientation never really
stopped following Griffin from room to room. He could duck it for a while,
but it would always find him. It's disheartening that Merv had to die to
shake it for good.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
I don't believe it for a moment. It's too bad when someone dies we
don't allow them to die with dignity.
w***@bluebottle.com
2007-08-17 20:27:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Red
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
Merv Griffin was gay.
Why should that be so uncomfortable to read? Why is it so difficult to
write? Why are we still so jittery even about raising the issue in
purportedly liberal-minded Hollywood, in 2007?
Griffin, who died of prostate cancer Sunday at 82, stayed in the closet
throughout his life. Perhaps he figured it was preferable to remain the
object of gossip rather than live openly as "one of them."
But how tremendously sad it is that a man of Merv's renown, of his
gregarious nature and social dexterity, would feel compelled to endure such
a stealthy double life even as the gay community's clout, and its levels of
acceptance and equality, rose steadily from the ashes of ignorance.
What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.
I had more than a passing acquaintance with him, having worked on "The Merv
Griffin Show" as a talent coordinator/segment producer in 1985-86 as the
show was winding down. Around the office, Merv's being gay was understood
but rarely discussed (and certainly never with him). We knew nothing of his
relationships because he guarded his privacy fiercely, and we didn't pry.
Merv's secret gay life was widely known throughout showbiz culture, if not
the wider America. It gained traction in 1991 when he was targeted in a pair
of lawsuits: by "Dance Fever" host Denny Terrio, alleging sexual harassment;
and by assistant Brent Plott seeking $200 million in palimony. Both
ultimately were dismissed.
Over the past 16 years of his life, however, Griffin deflected the sexuality
questions with a quip, determining that his private life remained nobody's
business. He certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to
himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind
throughout his adult life. Then again, Merv carved his niche in the
entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't OK, when disclosure was
unthinkable and the allegation alone could deep-six one's career.
If you're Griffin, why would you think a judgmental culture would be any
more tolerant as you grew into middle and old age? Even in the capital of
entertainment -- in a business where homosexuality isn't exactly a rare
phenomenon -- it's still spoken of in hushed tones or, more often, not at
all. And Merv's brush with tabloid scandal no doubt only drove him further
into the closet.
While it would seem everything has changed today, little actually has. You
can count on the fingers of one hand, or at most two, the number of
high-powered stars, executives and public figures who have come out. Those
who don't can't really be faulted, as rarely do honesty and full disclosure
prove a boon to one's showbiz livelihood.
Nonetheless, the elephant that was his sexual orientation never really
stopped following Griffin from room to room. He could duck it for a while,
but it would always find him. It's disheartening that Merv had to die to
shake it for good.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
I don't believe it for a moment. It's too bad when someone dies we
don't allow them to die with dignity.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
They would rather throw shit at him like deranged baboons..
LidsvilleNine
2007-08-18 04:56:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Red
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
Merv Griffin was gay.
Why should that be so uncomfortable to read? Why is it so difficult to
write? Why are we still so jittery even about raising the issue in
purportedly liberal-minded Hollywood, in 2007?
Griffin, who died of prostate cancer Sunday at 82, stayed in the closet
throughout his life. Perhaps he figured it was preferable to remain the
object of gossip rather than live openly as "one of them."
But how tremendously sad it is that a man of Merv's renown, of his
gregarious nature and social dexterity, would feel compelled to endure such
a stealthy double life even as the gay community's clout, and its levels of
acceptance and equality, rose steadily from the ashes of ignorance.
What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.
I had more than a passing acquaintance with him, having worked on "The Merv
Griffin Show" as a talent coordinator/segment producer in 1985-86 as the
show was winding down. Around the office, Merv's being gay was understood
but rarely discussed (and certainly never with him). We knew nothing of his
relationships because he guarded his privacy fiercely, and we didn't pry.
Merv's secret gay life was widely known throughout showbiz culture, if not
the wider America. It gained traction in 1991 when he was targeted in a pair
of lawsuits: by "Dance Fever" host Denny Terrio, alleging sexual harassment;
and by assistant Brent Plott seeking $200 million in palimony. Both
ultimately were dismissed.
Over the past 16 years of his life, however, Griffin deflected the sexuality
questions with a quip, determining that his private life remained nobody's
business. He certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to
himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind
throughout his adult life. Then again, Merv carved his niche in the
entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't OK, when disclosure was
unthinkable and the allegation alone could deep-six one's career.
If you're Griffin, why would you think a judgmental culture would be any
more tolerant as you grew into middle and old age? Even in the capital of
entertainment -- in a business where homosexuality isn't exactly a rare
phenomenon -- it's still spoken of in hushed tones or, more often, not at
all. And Merv's brush with tabloid scandal no doubt only drove him further
into the closet.
While it would seem everything has changed today, little actually has. You
can count on the fingers of one hand, or at most two, the number of
high-powered stars, executives and public figures who have come out. Those
who don't can't really be faulted, as rarely do honesty and full disclosure
prove a boon to one's showbiz livelihood.
Nonetheless, the elephant that was his sexual orientation never really
stopped following Griffin from room to room. He could duck it for a while,
but it would always find him. It's disheartening that Merv had to die to
shake it for good.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
I don't believe it for a moment. It's too bad when someone dies we
don't allow them to die with dignity.
Good grief. This has been common knowledge for at least 25 years. I
hope nobody is saying Liberace was gay!
comadrejo
2007-08-18 08:03:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by LidsvilleNine
Post by Red
I don't believe it for a moment. It's too bad when someone dies we
don't allow them to die with dignity.
Good grief. This has been common knowledge for at least 25 years. I
hope nobody is saying Liberace was gay!
Liberace wasn't gay! He even won a libel suit in Britain in the late
1950s stating he wasn't gay. All the stuff with Scott Thorson can be
explained, here let me find some lame excuses...

He died from a vicious watermelon diet overreaction. He didn't die
from AIDS, and all the pictures of him well look, "Sniggering" (one of
the words used in the defamation suit that he won) are just well
doctored to humiliate him in front of his fans.

Loading Image...
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0208/12/lkl.00.html

Because it is the middle of Watermelon season, I want to warn people
of the danger of overdoing it with this hydra monster.
quatorzejames
2007-08-18 07:00:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Red
I don't believe it for a moment.
you don't believe it...?
and why are you concerned here with the stars' "dignity"?
you, whose hours are spent typing out your detailed, embellished
reverse hagiographies of lohan, hilton, et al?
i can't figure you kids out.
Rob Cypher
2007-08-17 13:38:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
Merv Griffin was gay.
Why should that be so uncomfortable to read? Why is it so difficult to
write? Why are we still so jittery even about raising the issue in
purportedly liberal-minded Hollywood, in 2007?
Griffin, who died of prostate cancer Sunday at 82, stayed in the closet
throughout his life. Perhaps he figured it was preferable to remain the
object of gossip rather than live openly as "one of them."
But how tremendously sad it is that a man of Merv's renown, of his
gregarious nature and social dexterity, would feel compelled to endure such
a stealthy double life even as the gay community's clout, and its levels of
acceptance and equality, rose steadily from the ashes of ignorance.
What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.
I had more than a passing acquaintance with him, having worked on "The Merv
Griffin Show" as a talent coordinator/segment producer in 1985-86 as the
show was winding down. Around the office, Merv's being gay was understood
but rarely discussed (and certainly never with him). We knew nothing of his
relationships because he guarded his privacy fiercely, and we didn't pry.
Merv's secret gay life was widely known throughout showbiz culture, if not
the wider America. It gained traction in 1991 when he was targeted in a pair
of lawsuits: by "Dance Fever" host Denny Terrio, alleging sexual harassment;
and by assistant Brent Plott seeking $200 million in palimony. Both
ultimately were dismissed.
Over the past 16 years of his life, however, Griffin deflected the sexuality
questions with a quip, determining that his private life remained nobody's
business. He certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to
himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind
throughout his adult life. Then again, Merv carved his niche in the
entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't OK, when disclosure was
unthinkable and the allegation alone could deep-six one's career.
If you're Griffin, why would you think a judgmental culture would be any
more tolerant as you grew into middle and old age? Even in the capital of
entertainment -- in a business where homosexuality isn't exactly a rare
phenomenon -- it's still spoken of in hushed tones or, more often, not at
all. And Merv's brush with tabloid scandal no doubt only drove him further
into the closet.
While it would seem everything has changed today, little actually has. You
can count on the fingers of one hand, or at most two, the number of
high-powered stars, executives and public figures who have come out. Those
who don't can't really be faulted, as rarely do honesty and full disclosure
prove a boon to one's showbiz livelihood.
Nonetheless, the elephant that was his sexual orientation never really
stopped following Griffin from room to room. He could duck it for a while,
but it would always find him. It's disheartening that Merv had to die to
shake it for good.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Well, that certainly explains some things to me.

robcypher.livejournal.com
Marion Morrison
2007-08-17 13:41:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rob Cypher
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
Merv Griffin was gay.
Why should that be so uncomfortable to read? Why is it so difficult to
write? Why are we still so jittery even about raising the issue in
purportedly liberal-minded Hollywood, in 2007?
Griffin, who died of prostate cancer Sunday at 82, stayed in the closet
throughout his life. Perhaps he figured it was preferable to remain the
object of gossip rather than live openly as "one of them."
But how tremendously sad it is that a man of Merv's renown, of his
gregarious nature and social dexterity, would feel compelled to endure such
a stealthy double life even as the gay community's clout, and its levels of
acceptance and equality, rose steadily from the ashes of ignorance.
What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.
I had more than a passing acquaintance with him, having worked on "The Merv
Griffin Show" as a talent coordinator/segment producer in 1985-86 as the
show was winding down. Around the office, Merv's being gay was understood
but rarely discussed (and certainly never with him). We knew nothing of his
relationships because he guarded his privacy fiercely, and we didn't pry.
Merv's secret gay life was widely known throughout showbiz culture, if not
the wider America. It gained traction in 1991 when he was targeted in a pair
of lawsuits: by "Dance Fever" host Denny Terrio, alleging sexual harassment;
and by assistant Brent Plott seeking $200 million in palimony. Both
ultimately were dismissed.
Over the past 16 years of his life, however, Griffin deflected the sexuality
questions with a quip, determining that his private life remained nobody's
business. He certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to
himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind
throughout his adult life. Then again, Merv carved his niche in the
entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't OK, when disclosure was
unthinkable and the allegation alone could deep-six one's career.
If you're Griffin, why would you think a judgmental culture would be any
more tolerant as you grew into middle and old age? Even in the capital of
entertainment -- in a business where homosexuality isn't exactly a rare
phenomenon -- it's still spoken of in hushed tones or, more often, not at
all. And Merv's brush with tabloid scandal no doubt only drove him further
into the closet.
While it would seem everything has changed today, little actually has. You
can count on the fingers of one hand, or at most two, the number of
high-powered stars, executives and public figures who have come out. Those
who don't can't really be faulted, as rarely do honesty and full disclosure
prove a boon to one's showbiz livelihood.
Nonetheless, the elephant that was his sexual orientation never really
stopped following Griffin from room to room. He could duck it for a while,
but it would always find him. It's disheartening that Merv had to die to
shake it for good.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Well, that certainly explains some things to me.
robcypher.livejournal.com
so ray richmond is a homo?
No One
2007-08-17 16:11:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>

If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Kris Baker
2007-08-17 16:22:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?

"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.

The only people I know who have changed their opinions
about gays, are those who find themselves the parent of
a gay child. THEN they start understanding.

Kris
No One
2007-08-17 20:16:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kris Baker
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?
"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.
Well, I didn't know - never met the guy and have/had no interest
in his personal life. Otherwise it sounds ilke speculation on
someone's part ... mere rumor.
Bigolhomo
2007-08-18 01:31:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by No One
Post by Kris Baker
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?
"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.
Well, I didn't know - never met the guy and have/had no interest
in his personal life. Otherwise it sounds ilke speculation on
someone's part ... mere rumor.
By the same standards we'd have to say Liberace's being gay is only
rumor and speculation.

If you want a rumor, here's one. Ryan Seacrest owes his career to
being Merv Griffin's fucktoy.
--
Bigolhomo
Gregory Morrow
2007-08-18 05:20:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigolhomo
Post by No One
Post by Kris Baker
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?
"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.
Well, I didn't know - never met the guy and have/had no interest
in his personal life. Otherwise it sounds ilke speculation on
someone's part ... mere rumor.
By the same standards we'd have to say Liberace's being gay is only
rumor and speculation.
http://www.bobsliberace.com/decades/1950s/1950s.17.html

"Why LIBERACE'S theme song should be...

CONFIDENTIAL was a Hollywood tabloid magazine devoted to the
misadventures of Hollywood celebrities. Sold in news stands and
supermarkets everywhere it boasted a circulation of 10 million.

Liberace was not spared Confidential's humiliation.

The July 1957 issue featured an article entitled "Why Liberace's theme
song should be 'Mad About the Boy'". The article alleged that
Liberace, "The Kandelabra Kid," had made advances toward a press agent
in Akron, Los Angeles and Dallas. Liberace sued for libel, denying he
was homosexual.

He later won the case by proving he was not in the Dallas area at the
time of one of the alleged attacks.


The article:

"Mad About The Boy"

By HORTON STREETE


"THERE ARE FEW SHOW BUSINESS PERSONALITIES today with a gaudier sense
of theater than the Kandelabra Kid himself, Liberace. You know the
routine - grand piano, glittering suit, glimmering candles, Brother
George on the violin, and so on.

But the pudgy pianist's many faithful fans would have popped their
girdles if they had witnessed their idol in action last year in an
offstage production that saw old Kittenish on the Keys play one sour
note after another in his clumsy efforts to make beautiful music with
a handsome but highly reluctant young publicity man.

In one of the zaniest plots in theatrical history, this comedy of
errors rang up the curtain in Akron, Ohio, played a crazy Act Two in
Los Angeles, and closed in Dallas, Texas with the wildest finale since
"Hellzapoppin'." The show had everything: unrequited love...
conflict... mob scenes... low comedy. And through it all throbbed the
theme song, "Mad About the Boy."

It all started when the handsome press agent was brought to Akron from
New York to breathe life into what was threatening to become a dying
enterprise - an outdoor Fourth of July spectacular to be held in the
Akron Rubber Bowl. Along with stock car races, the big attraction was
to be the glamorous Liberace.

Promoting the show and committed to shell out $35,000 to Liberace was
an Ohio promoter, the man who had sent the S.O.S. to the publicity
specialist. By the time of Liberace's arrival in Akron by plane on
Tuesday July 3rd, the promoter and the hard-working drum-beater had
whipped up a gala welcome at the airport that included six slick
chicks to drive cars in a motorcade.

A clue on what was to follow might have been found right at the start
when Liberace, resplendent in a frilly white lace shirt with red polka
dots, minced down the ramp from the plane. As news photographers
crowded around, one of the curvy cuties planted a kiss on his dimpled
cheek. Fatso managed to flash a toothy smile for the cameras, but his
heart clearly wasn't in it. He had just been introduced to the young
publicity man and was getting ideas.

Arriving at the Sheraton-Mayflower Hotel, he wasted no time persuading
the press agent to join him in his suite for a drink. The latter went
along with the invite, figuring it was his job to keep Dimples happy.
He had no idea that in a few short minutes he would be fighting for
his honor. And so it was in all innocence that he informed his host:
"Whatever you want - I'm your boy."

With a little coo of delight, the beaming Liberace promptly threw his
arm around the flack's shoulders and simpered: "That I like!"

The press agent firmly disengaged himself and began mixing drinks. His
host meanwhile tripped into the adjacent bedroom and returned wearing
an elegant robe and an ardent look. Flouncing over to the couch,
Liberace flung himself on its full length, propped his chin on his
hands and gazed tenderly at his young guest. "You I like," he purred.

"That's swell," said the drum-beater nervously, "but I gotta go," and
he started up from his chair. The next thing the publicity man knew he
was right back in it again with Liberace sitting on his lap!

The scene that followed had all the lively action and wild comedy of a
TV wrestling match - with a few things added. Dimples clamped on a
headlock. His victim fought to keep from being pinned, but he was at a
disadvantage. For one thing, he was outweighed. For another, he needed
a referee. A referee certainly would have penalized the panting
pianist for illegal holds.

Once during the scuffle the press agent let out a yelp of pain, and no
wonder... For Luscious Libby, it was strictly no-holds-barred.
Finally, with a sort of combination wristlock and flying mare, the
publicity man wrenched loose from his host's embrace and fled from the
suite, leaving Liberace sprawled on the floor.

Out in the corridor, our hero stopped to catch his breath and to vow
fervently that he would never get in a spot like that again with the
eager pianist.

How wrong can you get? He didn't know it, but it was only intermission
coming up, and that was to be packed with action, too, but of a
different kind. First, bad weather and perhaps a touch of apathy
resulted in a disappointing turnout for the Fourth of July
spectacular, and Liberace's appearance was postponed for two days.
When his concert finally did go on at the Rubber Bowl, it was to the
fortissimo accompaniment of planes taking off every few minutes from a
nearby airport and drowning out Libby's keyboard capers.

After the concert, Liberace's trailer-dressing room got the rock-and-
roll treatment from noisy crowds impatient to see the stock car races.
At the height of the confusion, Liberace minced over to the press
agent as though the hotel room scene had never happened, pecked him on
the cheek and murmured: "Who do you love?" The rich profanity he drew
in return seemed to bother Dimples not one whit. Everything in his
manner indicated he still hoped to play a tender duet with the object
of his affections.

Liberace got his chance about two weeks later when the Ohio promoter
persuaded the reluctant ballyhoo boy - by means of a fee and expense
money - to fly out to Los Angeles and settle some litigation that had
arisen in connection with Libby's Akron show. All the press agent had
to do was get Fatso's signature on a couple of releases and the matter
would be settled.

Liberace agreed to sign but first he insisted on fun and frolic, and
the pair had dinner and drinks at Trader Vic's until it closed. After
a visit to another spot, they headed back to town, with Libby at the
wheel of his jazzy Cadillac with the black and white piano-key
upholstery. He steered the car into Trader Vic's darkened parking lot
and came to a stop. Before the young press agent could make his
escape, he found himself playing a tune, you might say, on the
upholstered piano keys - a frantic little number called "Let Me Go,
Lover." He finally managed to break loose, once more vowing profanely,
"Never again!"

And once more he was wrong, because right about that time the plot
really began to thicken. Liberace got coy about signing the releases
and the disgusted publicity man went back to New York. The Ohio
promoter promptly contacted him again, mentioned money, and the press
agent was soon off to make one more stab at getting the releases
signed, this time in Dallas, where Dimples was appearing in "The Great
Waltz."

By now, the drum-beater was beginning to feel like the harried hero of
some maniacal melodrama, chasing a perfumed villain with the mortgage
papers. In the lobby of the Stoneleigh Hotel in Dallas, where Liberace
was staying, the flack warned an associate: "If you don't hear from me
pretty quick come up after me." He wanted no more boy-and-boy games
with the kewpie of the keyboard.

Trouble was, no one bothered to tell Liberace that the script was to
be different this time. When the young public relations man walked
into Suite 602, it was Akron all over again. There was Libby, reeking
of perfume and wearing that same robe.

After a few conversational preliminaries, Fatso plumped onto the couch
alongside his young guest, and before you could say Gorgeous George,
the pair were playing a return wrestling match. In a matter of
moments, it turned into a boxing bout, too, with the press agent
throwing desperate lefts and rights at Liberace. The latter, his
determination stiffening, merely clung tighter.

The floor show reached its climax when Dimples, by sheer weight,
pinned his victim's shoulders to the mat and mewed into his face:
"Gee, you're cute when you're mad!"

At that insane moment the door opened and in walked the flack's
friend. To the young publicity chap, he was the U.S. Cavalry riding to
the rescue in the nick of time. The press agent's pal stood there
speechless.

Liberace jumped to to his feet and greeted the newcomer with some sort
of world record for aplomb. "Forgive the room," he panted, "we've been
playing."

That ended the mad farce. The tired press agent was soon heading back
east -without the papers and, for all we know, they never did get that
legal tangle unsnarled.

One thing is sure, though. The whole delirious fiasco served as a
powerful object lesson to the handsome young publicity man. He knows
now that it's time to hit the road when a client tries to turn public
relations into private relations."

</>
Kyle
2007-08-18 18:13:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigolhomo
Post by No One
Post by Kris Baker
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?
"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.
Well, I didn't know - never met the guy and have/had no interest
in his personal life. Otherwise it sounds ilke speculation on
someone's part ... mere rumor.
By the same standards we'd have to say Liberace's being gay is only
rumor and speculation.
If you want a rumor, here's one. Ryan Seacrest owes his career to
being Merv Griffin's fucktoy.
When Griffin died, one of the news shows ran an interview w/ Griffin
in which he talked about "giving" Seacrest a television show. Well,
sure -- but in exchange fr what?
Kris Baker
2007-08-18 18:55:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kyle
When Griffin died, one of the news shows ran an interview w/ Griffin
in which he talked about "giving" Seacrest a television show. Well,
sure -- but in exchange fr what?
That lawsuit?
alforgnel
2007-08-19 23:14:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bigolhomo
Post by No One
Post by Kris Baker
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?
"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.
Well, I didn't know - never met the guy and have/had no interest
in his personal life. Otherwise it sounds ilke speculation on
someone's part ... mere rumor.
By the same standards we'd have to say Liberace's being gay is only
rumor and speculation.
If you want a rumor, here's one. Ryan Seacrest owes his career to
being Merv Griffin's fucktoy.
--
Bigolhomo
It was his personal business. Why does anyone care and why is the
press so obsessed with the issue?
Ahti Eric Rovainen
2007-08-19 23:29:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>, alforgnel
says...
Post by alforgnel
Post by Bigolhomo
Post by No One
Post by Kris Baker
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?
"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.
Well, I didn't know - never met the guy and have/had no interest
in his personal life. Otherwise it sounds ilke speculation on
someone's part ... mere rumor.
By the same standards we'd have to say Liberace's being gay is only
rumor and speculation.
If you want a rumor, here's one. Ryan Seacrest owes his career to
being Merv Griffin's fucktoy.
--
Bigolhomo
It was his personal business. Why does anyone care and why is the
press so obsessed with the issue?
Current events are boring and depressing. Have you listened to the news lately?
Gossip, however, is fun, speculative and non libelous. Hence this group was
formed and you have indicated with your post that you also find it fun,
speculative and non libelous.

So what's your fucking problem you stupid buttwipe?

AER
Mr. Potato Head
2007-08-20 03:13:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahti Eric Rovainen
Current events are boring and depressing. Have you listened to the news lately?
Gossip, however, is fun, speculative and non libelous. Hence this group was
formed and you have indicated with your post that you also find it fun,
speculative and non libelous.
Hear hear.
camille
2007-08-18 22:12:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kris Baker
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?
"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.
The only people I know who have changed their opinions
about gays, are those who find themselves the parent of
a gay child. THEN they start understanding.
Kris
I agree. I think in reality Merv was pretty open that he was gay. The
fact that he decided to have a female friend accompnay him in couples-
only venues (Eva) and not talk openly about it, does not mean he was
tormented or keeping it quiet. On the contrary, everyone has a right
as to how much they want to disclose to the huge public arena, he had
femaile friends that simply made it easier to hobnob in hetero
situations. I doubt he was tormented or uptight one bit.

I think he lived life to the fullest and all the people around him
knew the score. He doesn't have to be a poster boy. And did it ever
occur to thse who don't like it, he may have been protecting his son
from a bunch of prying questions.

In fact, one could say he made inroads in that his sexual orientation
was NOT an issue with anyone. Merv led a great life. More power to
him.
Kris Baker
2007-08-18 22:16:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by camille
Post by Kris Baker
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?
"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.
The only people I know who have changed their opinions
about gays, are those who find themselves the parent of
a gay child. THEN they start understanding.
Kris
I agree. I think in reality Merv was pretty open that he was gay. The
fact that he decided to have a female friend accompnay him in couples-
only venues (Eva) and not talk openly about it, does not mean he was
tormented or keeping it quiet. On the contrary, everyone has a right
as to how much they want to disclose to the huge public arena, he had
femaile friends that simply made it easier to hobnob in hetero
situations. I doubt he was tormented or uptight one bit.
I think he lived life to the fullest and all the people around him
knew the score. He doesn't have to be a poster boy. And did it ever
occur to thse who don't like it, he may have been protecting his son
from a bunch of prying questions.
In fact, one could say he made inroads in that his sexual orientation
was NOT an issue with anyone. Merv led a great life. More power to
him.
Applause!

You're right; I hadn't even considered his ex-wife, family, and
his son. He had women who loved him, and I'm sure he loved
them. He really did suffer when Eva died. She *was* part of
his family. That son of his looks like a real charmer.

Kris
camille
2007-08-19 06:00:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kris Baker
Post by camille
Post by Kris Baker
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Huh?
"Everyone" knows Griffin was gay; it was rumored, he was
sued a couple of times (and settled). He was open about
appearing in public with men.....he just didn't talk about it
or "out" himself. He was what he was. That's not a bad
thing.
The only people I know who have changed their opinions
about gays, are those who find themselves the parent of
a gay child. THEN they start understanding.
Kris
I agree. I think in reality Merv was pretty open that he was gay. The
fact that he decided to have a female friend accompnay him in couples-
only venues (Eva) and not talk openly about it, does not mean he was
tormented or keeping it quiet. On the contrary, everyone has a right
as to how much they want to disclose to the huge public arena, he had
femaile friends that simply made it easier to hobnob in hetero
situations. I doubt he was tormented or uptight one bit.
I think he lived life to the fullest and all the people around him
knew the score. He doesn't have to be a poster boy. And did it ever
occur to thse who don't like it, he may have been protecting his son
from a bunch of prying questions.
In fact, one could say he made inroads in that his sexual orientation
was NOT an issue with anyone. Merv led a great life. More power to
him.
Applause!
You're right; I hadn't even considered his ex-wife, family, and
his son. He had women who loved him, and I'm sure he loved
them. He really did suffer when Eva died. She *was* part of
his family. That son of his looks like a real charmer.
Kris
You're not kidding. And the money he and his wife inherited ain't bad
either. He's been in the background, but now he's front and center
with a new game show that's coming out. Interesting to see what
becomes of him. I get a good vibe.
Wyle Coyote
2007-08-17 16:46:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Why didn't they bring this out when he was alive?
Kyle
2007-08-18 18:08:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Because there is such a thing as secondhand knowledge -- even
secondhand common knowledge, as was the case re: Griffin's gayness.
No One
2007-08-18 19:26:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Because there is such a thing as secondhand knowledge -- even
secondhand common knowledge, as was the case re: Griffin's gayness.
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible. And besides, who cares?
Kyle
2007-08-18 19:33:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Because there is such a thing as secondhand knowledge -- even
secondhand common knowledge, as was the case re: Griffin's gayness.
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible. And besides, who cares?
Who cares about what? Griffin's gayness?
No One
2007-08-18 20:37:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Because there is such a thing as secondhand knowledge -- even
secondhand common knowledge, as was the case re: Griffin's gayness.
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible. And besides, who cares?
Who cares about what? Griffin's gayness?
Yep - why should I care about his sexual orientation, whatever it was?
It's not like I knew the guy.
MC
2007-08-18 20:40:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Who cares about what? Griffin's gayness?
Yep - why should I care about his sexual orientation, whatever it was?
It's not like I knew the guy.
People are interested in all aspects of the lives of celebrities. That
includes sexuality.
--
"Anybody can direct. There are only 11 good writers."
-- Mel Brooks
No One
2007-08-19 00:12:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MC
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Who cares about what? Griffin's gayness?
Yep - why should I care about his sexual orientation, whatever it was?
It's not like I knew the guy.
People are interested in all aspects of the lives of celebrities. That
includes sexuality.
I don't have any interest in their private lives. It's none of my
business. All I'd care about is how well they do their jobs.
Bigolhomo
2007-08-19 07:13:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by No One
Post by MC
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Who cares about what? Griffin's gayness?
Yep - why should I care about his sexual orientation, whatever it was?
It's not like I knew the guy.
People are interested in all aspects of the lives of celebrities. That
includes sexuality.
I don't have any interest in their private lives. It's none of my
business. All I'd care about is how well they do their jobs.
Bullshit. If that were true you wouldn't be wasting your time in this
newsgroup.
--
Bigolhomo
Wyle Coyote
2007-08-19 21:00:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by No One
Post by MC
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Who cares about what? Griffin's gayness?
Yep - why should I care about his sexual orientation, whatever it was?
It's not like I knew the guy.
People are interested in all aspects of the lives of celebrities. That
includes sexuality.
I don't have any interest in their private lives. It's none of my
business. All I'd care about is how well they do their jobs.
I agree. How good was the movie, the video or the song? Thier job is
to entertain us via art not thier personal lives.
I hate the "they knew the deal before they got into the biz..."
justification for invading thier lives. We wouldn't want it done to
us so why do we do it to them? Further, the biz doesn't have to be
this way and it isn't right. They have no obligation to inform us of
thier private affairs. Were it me, I would only do interviews upon
the interviewer aggreeing to sign a final editing approval contract,
in my favor. And I'd carry one of those MEGA squirt guns filled with
stale piss and rotten egg to squirt at the papparazzi!
maryanne kehoe
2007-08-19 02:02:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
People are interested in all aspects of the lives >of celebrities. That
includes sexuality.



Merv didn't owe anybody *anything* in regards to his sexuality. Even
when Denny Terrio (sp?) sued him, he even handled that ugly episode with
the classic Merv Griffin dignity, which he embodied thruout his life.
Kyle
2007-08-18 20:41:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Because there is such a thing as secondhand knowledge -- even
secondhand common knowledge, as was the case re: Griffin's gayness.
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible. And besides, who cares?
Who cares about what? Griffin's gayness?
Yep - why should I care about his sexual orientation, whatever it was?
It's not like I knew the guy.- Hide quoted text -
No one's saying you "should" care in the sense of having an
obligation. But do take a look at the name of this newsgroup.
No One
2007-08-19 00:14:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Kyle <***@yahoo.com> writes:
<snip>
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Yep - why should I care about his sexual orientation, whatever it was?
It's not like I knew the guy.
No one's saying you "should" care in the sense of having an
obligation. But do take a look at the name of this newsgroup.
Look at the cross posting. :-)
alforgnel
2007-08-19 23:31:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Because there is such a thing as secondhand knowledge -- even
secondhand common knowledge, as was the case re: Griffin's gayness.
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible. And besides, who cares?
Who cares about what? Griffin's gayness?
Yep - why should I care about his sexual orientation, whatever it was?
It's not like I knew the guy.- Hide quoted text -
No one's saying you "should" care in the sense of having an
obligation. But do take a look at the name of this newsgroup.
It's not about curiosity, it's about people thinking they're ENTITLED
to this information. If your neighbors wanted access to your medical
records, would you give it to them?

Why not?

Why would a celebrity feel any different?
Kyle
2007-08-21 01:32:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alforgnel
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by Kyle
Post by No One
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
<snip>
If he was in fact hiding it, how would this guy know?
Because there is such a thing as secondhand knowledge -- even
secondhand common knowledge, as was the case re: Griffin's gayness.
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible. And besides, who cares?
Who cares about what? Griffin's gayness?
Yep - why should I care about his sexual orientation, whatever it was?
It's not like I knew the guy.- Hide quoted text -
No one's saying you "should" care in the sense of having an
obligation. But do take a look at the name of this newsgroup.
It's not about curiosity, it's about people thinking they're ENTITLED
to this information. If your neighbors wanted access to your medical
records, would you give it to them?
Let's not change the subject. I don't think anyone in this thread
claimed he's "entitled" to "this" (unspecified by you) "information."
In the case of someone like Griffin, word about his sexual preference
has simply gotten around. And conversing about it is not a sin.
quatorzejames
2007-08-21 01:45:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kyle
Post by alforgnel
It's not about curiosity, it's about people thinking they're ENTITLED
to this information. If your neighbors wanted access to your medical
records, would you give it to them?
Let's not change the subject. I don't think anyone in this thread
claimed he's "entitled" to "this" (unspecified by you) "information."
In the case of someone like Griffin, word about his sexual preference
has simply gotten around. And conversing about it is not a sin.
they won't admit it, but what they want is for evidence of gay sex to
be "swept under the carpet" and for gay identity to be erased.
they hide behind words like "privacy', "decency", etc.
they aren't fooling anybody and their logic stinks.
these folks' arguments wouldn't hold up on "live with regis & kelly",
let alone in court!
maryanne kehoe
2007-08-21 06:40:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
=A0=A0they won't admit it, but what they want is for >evidence of gay
sex to be "swept under the >carpet" and for gay identity to be erased.
=A0=A0they hide behind words like "privacy', >"decency", etc. they
aren't fooling anybody >and their logic stinks. these folks' arguments
wouldn't hold up on "live with regis & kelly",
let alone in court!
quatorze, sadly soem *gays* have problems with their identity....had a
boss like that, and it manifested itself in emotional meltdowns the
whole office witnessed. OTOH, the infamous "outings" in Out magazine
that made national headlines about 10 years ago was wrong too.

I don't understand why some people have an issue w/Merv not coming out.
He lived his life according to his OWN agenda, and no one elses. That's
what made him successful, and not sucumbing to so called "gay
sterotypes" in Hollywood.
quatorzejames
2007-08-19 03:56:30 UTC
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Permalink
Post by No One
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible.
you trash are quick to ascribe "credibility" to rumor when it suits
your murky purposes.
Post by No One
And besides, who cares?
"minorities"!
gay kids who need role models!
you can't sweep it under the rug, because lack of gay visibility
breeds gay low self esteem and general feelings of inferiority and
hopelessness.
types like you want oprah winfrey to shut up about Blackness too, but
"who cares"?
you know you ain't right.
gay people and non-"whites" will continue to rise and achieve and
TESTIFY about our experience as effective americans and world
citizens.
insecure cranks need to lead, follow or get out of the damn way.
quit trying to bring the rest of us down to your level.
No One
2007-08-19 05:37:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by quatorzejames
Post by No One
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible.
you trash are quick to ascribe "credibility" to rumor when it suits
your murky purposes.
What sort of idiot are you? I merely said that I don't believe
rumors that only show up on the Internet and that mainstream
media ignore. In my opinion, the real "trash" are people who
have nothing better to do than to pry into some guy's private
live for their own amusement.
Post by quatorzejames
Post by No One
And besides, who cares?
"minorities"!
gay kids who need role models!
Personally, I think someone like Alan Turing would be a far better
role model for gay kids. You know, one of the founders of computer
science and whose personal efforts had a major effect on the outcome
of World War II. That's a far better role model than some TV guy.
Post by quatorzejames
you can't sweep it under the rug, because lack of gay visibility
breeds gay low self esteem and general feelings of inferiority and
hopelessness.
Did it occur to you that someone, gay or straight, can be a
"celebrity" but may have a wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend who
simply doesn't feel comfortable being the object of public attention?
Some people simply don't want to live in a fishbowl, and their wishes
should be respected. People can be gay and "out" to all their
friends, but not in the least comfortable with a bunch of "reporters"
setting off flashbulbs in their faces and firing questions at them.
Post by quatorzejames
types like you want oprah winfrey to shut up about Blackness too, but
"who cares"?
Liar - I even don't care what Oprah Winfey says. Why should I when I
don't watch her program (or much of anything on TV because there is
too much advertising).
Wyle Coyote
2007-08-19 21:04:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by quatorzejames
Post by No One
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible.
you trash are quick to ascribe "credibility" to rumor when it suits
your murky purposes.
Post by No One
And besides, who cares?
"minorities"!
gay kids who need role models!
Then get on up there and become a role model!
Don't expect anyone else to do the job for you, if they select not to
disclose thier sexual orientation to the masses.
Gregory Morrow
2007-08-19 21:28:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wyle Coyote
Post by quatorzejames
Post by No One
"Secondhand knowledge" or "secondhand common knowledge" is often a de
facto synonym for mere rumor, which is frequently baseless, and is not
credible.
you trash are quick to ascribe "credibility" to rumor when it suits
your murky purposes.
Post by No One
And besides, who cares?
"minorities"!
gay kids who need role models!
Then get on up there and become a role model!
Don't expect anyone else to do the job for you, if they select not to
disclose thier sexual orientation to the masses.
That silly ninny "Princess Johnson" aka Queerjames up there could be a
"role model" for young aspiring trannies and drag queens, most
probably...


--
Best
Greg
quatorzejames
2007-08-20 02:36:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gregory Morrow
That silly ninny "Princess Johnson" aka Queerjames up there could be a
"role model" for young aspiring trannies and drag queens, most
probably...
listen i'm sorry your own self-esteem is so low that you fee you have
to attempt to drag everyone down to your own level.
i don't know how old you are or what your background is, but i feel
sorry for you.
i am 41 and of "mixed race".
i was raised in a "white", "straight" community in a "straight",
swedish american family.
i have taken in my life the opportunity to learn from gay role models
and african american role models in the media.
people like harry hay, camille paglia, rupaul, the cockettes, oprah
winfrey, harry belafonte, bill cosby, maya angelou, ntozake shange etc
helped me understand that i was beautiful and worthy as i was and
encouraged me to want to be better for myself and in honor of the
achievements of those that came before me.
i have plenty of transsexual friends and, even though i am not TS
myself, i definitely have been a role model for a couple of them in
terms of self-esteem and basically, how to act in public and private
with dignity and respect for myself and others.
i don't know if i have been much of a role model as a drag performer
because i have appeared so infrequently and made so little money at it
(!)
it has been more of a hobbyy than an vocation for me.
i did it for art!
it is a gift i was born with and has not been the only thing that i
did onstage.
i could i was told a couple times that i should open a drag school,
however.
i think most people who have seen me perform will admit that i was
talented, hilarious, multifaceted and chic(!)
anyway, greg_ it's a mistake to attempt to reduce people the way you
do!
you are not going to achieve anything this way except to reinforce
your own reputation(!) and further reduce yourself in the eyes of
others.
people are not cardboard cutouts and they are so much more than the
labels we try to paste on them.
that said, if someone achieves things of note in the public sphere
and they are obviously transgender, gay, of color, "straight", "white"
etc -
- the public deserves to know what groups have been uplifted by that
individual!
we can't change the facts about how merv griffin lived his life, but
we can look at the facts honestly and give credit where it is due.
merve griffin was loved by all and was definitely a role model in
hollywood by virtue of his achievements and more importantly, his
great sense of friendship and simpatico.
and he was a gay man!
this is what gay men are capable of!
that's what kids need to know.
quatorzejames
2007-08-20 02:09:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wyle Coyote
Then get on up there and become a role model!
Don't expect anyone else to do the job for you, if they select not to
disclose thier sexual orientation to the masses.
listen, i *am* a role model to my niece and nephew and their friends
and to the young folks i work with.
if i had achieved what merv griffin had in business and in society, i
would be another (maybe more powerful) kind of role model for them.
contrast merv griffin with donald trump or whomever.
you may think trump is vulgar, but you would never try to create a
social structure where it was taboo for him to talk about his wives or
mistresses and you would not support a media which arbitrarily drew a
cloak of secrecy around his private life out of some misplaced sense
of...what?
you tell me what justifies the double standard!
if you or merv want to stay in the closet, be my guest.
i don't know why you think the rest of the world needs to cooperate
with your secrecy/shame.
your arguments are twisted, incomplete and old-fashioned at best.
ps
merv griffin was a product of another time.
when public figures like jodie foster, john travolta, perhaps oprah
winfrey(for the sake of argument)
build a bond with their audience over decades based on what is either
a lie or a very big omission, it's understandable that they will try
to maintain that perception up to death, but don't expect the public
to maintain the illusion after (or before) that!
that's not rational and you know it!
homosexuality is not that deep!
it's not considered by science to be abnormal!
we now have gay priests, bishops, politicians, teachers and parents.
this is the world our kids are living in.
if nothing else, we adults (homo, het or otherwise) owe it to young
people to create a future free of lies, taboo and arbitrary scandal
and censure.
you folks should be ashamed of yourselves for refusing to evolve and
refusing to treat every citizen the same or hold them to the same
standard.
in 2007 it's not a scandal to be gay and it's even legal to marry in
some countries and US states.
let's be grownups and be honest.
have a little self esteem/compassion/respect for others
and don't stop the momentum of progress!
Wyle Coyote
2007-08-20 18:28:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by quatorzejames
Post by Wyle Coyote
Then get on up there and become a role model!
Don't expect anyone else to do the job for you, if they select not to
disclose thier sexual orientation to the masses.
listen, i *am* a role model to my niece and nephew and their friends
and to the young folks i work with.
Be happy with that. If you can't do the job you want done, with the
tools/skills/talents God gave you, guess you'll have to put up and
shut up.
Post by quatorzejames
if i had achieved what merv griffin had in business and in society, i
would be another (maybe more powerful) kind of role model for them.
Woulda coulda shoulda.
Post by quatorzejames
you tell me what justifies the double standard!
if you or merv want to stay in the closet, be my guest.
i don't know why you think the rest of the world needs to cooperate
with your secrecy/shame.
Secrecy? Shame? First, I have nothing to hide and nothing to be
ashamed of.
However, have you no shame about anything QZ? Is there anything
you've done in life that you wouldn't want to burlesque across the
world stage? If so, than realize not everyone necessarily believe
homosexuality is the way to go and would promote it for the masses,
even some practicing gays. Handle it!
Mervs job is not to legitimize homosexuality or make a statement for
the gay community. He did what he got paid for. Is that a new
concept for you?
Again, those who feel as passionately as you should "Get on up there
and become a gay role model". Life is no free ride and many don't
want to risk what they have to promote something that they are not
necessarily as passionate about as you. Some even consider gay sex "a
sport". Not a good position, but this is 'THE REAL WORLD'. Handle
it!
Post by quatorzejames
merv griffin was a product of another time.
when public figures like jodie foster, john travolta, perhaps oprah
winfrey(for the sake of argument)
build a bond with their audience over decades based on what is either
a lie or a very big omission, it's understandable that they will try
to maintain that perception up to death, but don't expect the public
to maintain the illusion after (or before) that!
that's not rational and you know it!
Well, just goes to show you how little work was done by the
generation(s) preceeding you. Now it's your turn.

"YOU BETTER WORK!!!"
--RuPaul
Post by quatorzejames
homosexuality is not that deep!
it's not considered by science to be abnormal!
we now have gay priests, bishops, politicians, teachers and parents.
this is the world our kids are living in.
Again, many don't believe it to be an aspect of ones character to be
promoted and burlesqued on the world stage. Personally, I think it's
a character flaw. Kinda like a woman or man who likes to fuck too
much and anyone they can fuck. Maybe even like someone who drinks too
much or takes drugs too much, although remaining basically
functional. People usually don't select to promote those aspects of
thier character.
Post by quatorzejames
if nothing else, we adults (homo, het or otherwise) owe it to young
people to create a future free of lies, taboo and arbitrary scandal
and censure.
If you feel that way, then get to work!
Post by quatorzejames
in 2007 it's not a scandal to be gay and it's even legal to marry in
some countries and US states.
let's be grownups and be honest.
have a little self esteem/compassion/respect for others
and don't stop the momentum of progress!
Are you so sure it's progress?
While in Australia, a talk show host or guest, stated regarding
homosexual marriage, "This may very well be something that will
catapult us to the next level or very well may play a critical role in
our demise".
QZ, legalizing marriage between two men is a tough one for ANY
civilization.
For you to expect the masses to up and say "ok, go gay and make it all
legal" after 1000's of years of the opposite is very immature and
childish of you. More people in this game and who came before than
just the almighty QZ!
quatorzejames
2007-08-21 01:22:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wyle Coyote
Post by quatorzejames
Post by Wyle Coyote
Then get on up there and become a role model!
Don't expect anyone else to do the job for you, if they select not to
disclose thier sexual orientation to the masses.
listen, i *am* a role model to my niece and nephew and their friends
and to the young folks i work with.
Be happy with that. If you can't do the job you want done, with the
tools/skills/talents God gave you, guess you'll have to put up and
shut up.
Post by quatorzejames
if i had achieved what merv griffin had in business and in society, i
would be another (maybe more powerful) kind of role model for them.
Woulda coulda shoulda.
Post by quatorzejames
you tell me what justifies the double standard!
if you or merv want to stay in the closet, be my guest.
i don't know why you think the rest of the world needs to cooperate
with your secrecy/shame.
Secrecy? Shame? First, I have nothing to hide and nothing to be
ashamed of.
However, have you no shame about anything QZ? Is there anything
you've done in life that you wouldn't want to burlesque across the
world stage? If so, than realize not everyone necessarily believe
homosexuality is the way to go and would promote it for the masses,
even some practicing gays. Handle it!
Mervs job is not to legitimize homosexuality or make a statement for
the gay community. He did what he got paid for. Is that a new
concept for you?
Again, those who feel as passionately as you should "Get on up there
and become a gay role model". Life is no free ride and many don't
want to risk what they have to promote something that they are not
necessarily as passionate about as you. Some even consider gay sex "a
sport". Not a good position, but this is 'THE REAL WORLD'. Handle
it!
Post by quatorzejames
merv griffin was a product of another time.
when public figures like jodie foster, john travolta, perhaps oprah
winfrey(for the sake of argument)
build a bond with their audience over decades based on what is either
a lie or a very big omission, it's understandable that they will try
to maintain that perception up to death, but don't expect the public
to maintain the illusion after (or before) that!
that's not rational and you know it!
Well, just goes to show you how little work was done by the
generation(s) preceeding you. Now it's your turn.
"YOU BETTER WORK!!!"
--RuPaul
Post by quatorzejames
homosexuality is not that deep!
it's not considered by science to be abnormal!
we now have gay priests, bishops, politicians, teachers and parents.
this is the world our kids are living in.
Again, many don't believe it to be an aspect of ones character to be
promoted and burlesqued on the world stage. Personally, I think it's
a character flaw. Kinda like a woman or man who likes to fuck too
much and anyone they can fuck. Maybe even like someone who drinks too
much or takes drugs too much, although remaining basically
functional. People usually don't select to promote those aspects of
thier character.
Post by quatorzejames
if nothing else, we adults (homo, het or otherwise) owe it to young
people to create a future free of lies, taboo and arbitrary scandal
and censure.
If you feel that way, then get to work!
Post by quatorzejames
in 2007 it's not a scandal to be gay and it's even legal to marry in
some countries and US states.
let's be grownups and be honest.
have a little self esteem/compassion/respect for others
and don't stop the momentum of progress!
Are you so sure it's progress?
While in Australia, a talk show host or guest, stated regarding
homosexual marriage, "This may very well be something that will
catapult us to the next level or very well may play a critical role in
our demise".
QZ, legalizing marriage between two men is a tough one for ANY
civilization.
For you to expect the masses to up and say "ok, go gay and make it all
legal" after 1000's of years of the opposite is very immature and
childish of you. More people in this game and who came before than
just the almighty QZ!
oh my gosh!
what's great about you, wyle coyote, is that you will not hesitate to
put into words what most "conservative" cranks are too conflicted/self-
deluded to say out loud.
i think there are a ton of people out there (maybe over-represented on
this ng) who feel just like you...
defensive, defeatist, hopeless and full of *shame/condemnation*.
you sound hopeless!
hurry up and die of shame (just kidding) so the young people can pick
p the mess you made!
Wyle Coyote
2007-08-21 01:30:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by quatorzejames
Post by Wyle Coyote
Post by quatorzejames
Post by Wyle Coyote
Then get on up there and become a role model!
Don't expect anyone else to do the job for you, if they select not to
disclose thier sexual orientation to the masses.
listen, i *am* a role model to my niece and nephew and their friends
and to the young folks i work with.
Be happy with that. If you can't do the job you want done, with the
tools/skills/talents God gave you, guess you'll have to put up and
shut up.
Post by quatorzejames
if i had achieved what merv griffin had in business and in society, i
would be another (maybe more powerful) kind of role model for them.
Woulda coulda shoulda.
Post by quatorzejames
you tell me what justifies the double standard!
if you or merv want to stay in the closet, be my guest.
i don't know why you think the rest of the world needs to cooperate
with your secrecy/shame.
Secrecy? Shame? First, I have nothing to hide and nothing to be
ashamed of.
However, have you no shame about anything QZ? Is there anything
you've done in life that you wouldn't want to burlesque across the
world stage? If so, than realize not everyone necessarily believe
homosexuality is the way to go and would promote it for the masses,
even some practicing gays. Handle it!
Mervs job is not to legitimize homosexuality or make a statement for
the gay community. He did what he got paid for. Is that a new
concept for you?
Again, those who feel as passionately as you should "Get on up there
and become a gay role model". Life is no free ride and many don't
want to risk what they have to promote something that they are not
necessarily as passionate about as you. Some even consider gay sex "a
sport". Not a good position, but this is 'THE REAL WORLD'. Handle
it!
Post by quatorzejames
merv griffin was a product of another time.
when public figures like jodie foster, john travolta, perhaps oprah
winfrey(for the sake of argument)
build a bond with their audience over decades based on what is either
a lie or a very big omission, it's understandable that they will try
to maintain that perception up to death, but don't expect the public
to maintain the illusion after (or before) that!
that's not rational and you know it!
Well, just goes to show you how little work was done by the
generation(s) preceeding you. Now it's your turn.
"YOU BETTER WORK!!!"
--RuPaul
Post by quatorzejames
homosexuality is not that deep!
it's not considered by science to be abnormal!
we now have gay priests, bishops, politicians, teachers and parents.
this is the world our kids are living in.
Again, many don't believe it to be an aspect of ones character to be
promoted and burlesqued on the world stage. Personally, I think it's
a character flaw. Kinda like a woman or man who likes to fuck too
much and anyone they can fuck. Maybe even like someone who drinks too
much or takes drugs too much, although remaining basically
functional. People usually don't select to promote those aspects of
thier character.
Post by quatorzejames
if nothing else, we adults (homo, het or otherwise) owe it to young
people to create a future free of lies, taboo and arbitrary scandal
and censure.
If you feel that way, then get to work!
Post by quatorzejames
in 2007 it's not a scandal to be gay and it's even legal to marry in
some countries and US states.
let's be grownups and be honest.
have a little self esteem/compassion/respect for others
and don't stop the momentum of progress!
Are you so sure it's progress?
While in Australia, a talk show host or guest, stated regarding
homosexual marriage, "This may very well be something that will
catapult us to the next level or very well may play a critical role in
our demise".
QZ, legalizing marriage between two men is a tough one for ANY
civilization.
For you to expect the masses to up and say "ok, go gay and make it all
legal" after 1000's of years of the opposite is very immature and
childish of you. More people in this game and who came before than
just the almighty QZ!
oh my gosh!
what's great about you, wyle coyote, is that you will not hesitate to
put into words what most "conservative" cranks are too conflicted/self-
deluded to say out loud.
i think there are a ton of people out there (maybe over-represented on
this ng) who feel just like you...
defensive, defeatist, hopeless and full of *shame/condemnation*.
you sound hopeless!
hurry up and die of shame (just kidding) so the young people can pick
p the mess you made!-
You know it's nice to sit on the net and talk about what everybody
else in "key" postitions should/could do, but isn't it funny that
nobody seems to be so willing to do it once they are in those
positions? There's got to be a good reason. First, Hollywood was
built on the sweat, blood and backs of many more than just gays and
the gays in the industry know this. Also, the industry is very
influential and has a responsibility to more than just themselves.
You say you like Diana Ross? She has stated she is in a position of
"responsibility". She may like to participate in all kinds of
activities that many may find unacceptable, but she's not fool enough
to intentionally try to promote those acts through her art or
otherwise. Why, she has conviction. Conviction isn't necessarily a
bad thing and I wish more in the ET industry had some. Perhaps the
messy world "we" made wouldn't have been left in such a mess!
maryanne kehoe
2007-08-20 04:37:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Then get on up there and become a role >model! Don't expect anyone else
to do the job >for you, if they select not to disclose thier >sexual
orientation to the masses.



Agreed---why people feel Merv should have "come out" (when he clearly
didn't see the need to) does't make sense.
Gregory Morrow
2007-08-21 01:28:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by maryanne kehoe
Then get on up there and become a role >model! Don't expect anyone else
to do the job >for you, if they select not to disclose thier >sexual
orientation to the masses.
Agreed---why people feel Merv should have "come out" (when he clearly
didn't see the need to) does't make sense.
But you "came out" as a "loafhead"...

Shouldn't *everyone* follow your sterling example, ya think...???


--
Best
Greg
Wyle Coyote
2007-08-17 16:45:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Why should anyone else stand up for the rights of gays, when gays
won't even stand up for themselves. If it was so right, they should
put thier lives and reputations on the line. However, something tells
me deep down inside many don't feel it's right. In the 60's blacks
and whites were out on the frontline in full force and in mass!
No comparison.
Magda
2007-08-17 17:04:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:45:41 -0700, in alt.gossip.celebrities, Wyle Coyote
<***@post.com> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... Why should anyone else stand up for the rights of gays, when gays
... won't even stand up for themselves. If it was so right, they should
... put thier lives and reputations on the line. However, something tells
... me deep down inside many don't feel it's right.

There is no right or wrong. They are what they are, full point.

In the 60's blacks
... and whites were out on the frontline in full force and in mass!
... No comparison.

Maybe because they could not disguise the fact that they were black.

No, no comparison!
Alan Smithee
2007-08-17 21:20:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes
Post by Magda
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:45:41 -0700, in alt.gossip.celebrities, Wyle Coyote
... Why should anyone else stand up for the rights of gays, when gays
... won't even stand up for themselves. If it was so right, they should
... put thier lives and reputations on the line. However, something tells
... me deep down inside many don't feel it's right.
There is no right or wrong. They are what they are, full point.
In the 60's blacks
... and whites were out on the frontline in full force and in mass!
... No comparison.
Maybe because they could not disguise the fact that they were black.
No, no comparison!
And it's not like Blacks who are biracial / mulatto and who have very
light complexions and straight hair *ever* hide that fact if asked...


ALMS
Wyle Coyote
2007-08-17 23:19:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Magda
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:45:41 -0700, in alt.gossip.celebrities, Wyle Coyote
... Why should anyone else stand up for the rights of gays, when gays
... won't even stand up for themselves. If it was so right, they should
... put thier lives and reputations on the line. However, something tells
... me deep down inside many don't feel it's right.
There is no right or wrong. They are what they are, full point.
In the 60's blacks
... and whites were out on the frontline in full force and in mass!
... No comparison.
Maybe because they could not disguise the fact that they were black.
Yes, but not all blacks put thier lives in danger for the cause.
Some white celebrities did! That was a choice. Why don't the gay
U.S. Male celebrities duplicate the efforts?
Magda
2007-08-18 00:26:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:19:06 -0700, in alt.gossip.celebrities, Wyle Coyote
<***@post.com> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... On Aug 17, 10:04 am, Magda <***@keepthis.hu> wrote:
... > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:45:41 -0700, in alt.gossip.celebrities, Wyle Coyote
... > <***@post.com> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
... >
... > ... Why should anyone else stand up for the rights of gays, when gays
... > ... won't even stand up for themselves. If it was so right, they should
... > ... put thier lives and reputations on the line. However, something tells
... > ... me deep down inside many don't feel it's right.
... >
... > There is no right or wrong. They are what they are, full point.
... >
... > In the 60's blacks
... > ... and whites were out on the frontline in full force and in mass!
... > ... No comparison.
... >
... > Maybe because they could not disguise the fact that they were black.
...
...
... Yes, but not all blacks put thier lives in danger for the cause.
... Some white celebrities did! That was a choice. Why don't the gay
... U.S. Male celebrities duplicate the efforts?

Apples and oranges.
k***@ugcorp.com
2007-08-18 00:36:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
My rant:

The irony is most of America doesn't care about who's gay, who sleeps
with whom, or who is what. We all live in communities where gays live
side by side with straights. We all have families that include gay
people. The irony is that Hollywood, while patting itself on the back
for all it's liberal better-than-the-rest-of-the-country sentiment
really is more provincial on the subject than anywhere else in the
country.

Everyone knew Merv was gay. Nobody outside of Hollywood cared. He was
a great man. Period. He lived his life with dignity.

People work in every level of corporate America without hiding in the
closet. In Hollywood, it's still perceived as the kiss of death.
Hollywood is much more immature than the rest of the country when it
comes to sexuality. But the people there have convinced themselves
that despite their way-behind-the-times attitude that they are the
hippest people around.

Hollywood people talk out of both sides of their mouths. They think of
themselves as being enlightened, yet entertainment is the only
industry that even cares about who is gay and forces its workers into
the closet. Something doesn't make sense there. Using what they think
the rest of the country would think as the reason for all the secrecy
around the simple fact that some people in Hollywood are gay is based
on Hollywood's incorrect self-important thinking that Hollywood is
more hip with gay than the rest of the country. The rest of the
country stopped caring years ago. Backwater Hollywood needs to catch
up.

Then again, people in Hollywood still think Robin Williams is
entertaining, ABC comedies are what America wants to watch, and
Michael Moore is a journalist. Obviously their thinking is way
behind.

And how sad for the author that he thinks the only way his own life
can be validated is if a celebrity is like him. Is he really sitting
around thinking the only thing his life needs for validation is for
Merv to have told the work he was gay? If that's the case, the man
need counseling. Live your own life. Find your own dignity. Be your
own man. Fortunately, the majority of gay Americans have figured that
out already and are leading productive, meaningful lives without
waiting for Hollywood to bless their being.
k***@ugcorp.com
2007-08-18 00:44:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
The irony is most of America doesn't care about who's gay, who sleeps
with whom, or who is what. We all live in communities where gays live
side by side with straights. We all have families that include gay
people. The irony is that Hollywood, while patting itself on the back
for all it's liberal better-than-the-rest-of-the-country sentiment
really is more provincial on the subject than anywhere else in the
country.
Everyone knew Merv was gay. Nobody outside of Hollywood cared. He was
a great man. Period. He lived his life with dignity.
People work in every level of corporate America without hiding in the
closet. In Hollywood, it's still perceived as the kiss of death.
Hollywood is much more immature than the rest of the country when it
comes to sexuality. But the people there have convinced themselves
that despite their way-behind-the-times attitude that they are the
hippest people around.
Hollywood people talk out of both sides of their mouths. They think of
themselves as being enlightened, yet entertainment is the only
industry that even cares about who is gay and forces its workers into
the closet. Something doesn't make sense there. Using what they think
the rest of the country would think as the reason for all the secrecy
around the simple fact that some people in Hollywood are gay is based
on Hollywood's incorrect self-important thinking that Hollywood is
more hip with gay than the rest of the country. The rest of the
country stopped caring years ago. Backwater Hollywood needs to catch
up.
Then again, people in Hollywood still think Robin Williams is
entertaining, ABC comedies are what America wants to watch, and
Michael Moore is a journalist. Obviously their thinking is way
behind.
And how sad for the author that he thinks the only way his own life
can be validated is if a celebrity is like him. Is he really sitting
around thinking the only thing his life needs for validation is for
Merv to have told the work he was gay? If that's the case, the man
need counseling. Live your own life. Find your own dignity. Be your
own man. Fortunately, the majority of gay Americans have figured that
out already and are leading productive, meaningful lives without
waiting for Hollywood to bless their being.
The Enron scandal included a gay executive and his boyfriend/money
landerer. At least one magazine has an openly gay publisher. At least
one of the largest Internet companies is run by an open lesbian. There
have been at least two gay US Ambassadors - under a Republican
president. There are openly gay religious leaders. And there have been
many openly gay people working at both the Forture 10 companies I have
worked for in the past ten years.

America is not waiting for Hollywood on this. Hollywood is the only
place that still cares.
Kris Baker
2007-08-18 01:21:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
The irony is most of America doesn't care about who's gay, who sleeps
with whom, or who is what. We all live in communities where gays live
side by side with straights. We all have families that include gay
people. The irony is that Hollywood, while patting itself on the back
for all it's liberal better-than-the-rest-of-the-country sentiment
really is more provincial on the subject than anywhere else in the
country.
I think that's true of urban areas, but there's lots of Southern
states where a gay couple wouldn fear for their lives.

Kris
Just spent a few months down thar...
k***@ugcorp.com
2007-08-18 01:43:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kris Baker
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
The irony is most of America doesn't care about who's gay, who sleeps
with whom, or who is what. We all live in communities where gays live
side by side with straights. We all have families that include gay
people. The irony is that Hollywood, while patting itself on the back
for all it's liberal better-than-the-rest-of-the-country sentiment
really is more provincial on the subject than anywhere else in the
country.
I think that's true of urban areas, but there's lots of Southern
states where a gay couple wouldn fear for their lives.
Kris
Just spent a few months down thar...
Kris -

You know this because you live in which Southern State? Or is that
just what you think Southerners are like. Because I have to tell you,
in my 20 years living in Georgia, and traveling for work through
Alabama, South and North Carolina, Tenn, and Mississippi on a very
regular basis, I have not seen it. Not once. Carry yourself with
dignity, earn people's respect, and they don't care about who you
sleep with.

Southerners are just as smart and accepting as anyone else. They have
gay relatives. They have gay neighbors. They have gay coworkers. I
wish people who know nothing about this part of the country would stop
thinking we're as slow as the people in Hollywood.
Kris Baker
2007-08-18 01:56:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
Post by Kris Baker
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
The irony is most of America doesn't care about who's gay, who sleeps
with whom, or who is what. We all live in communities where gays live
side by side with straights. We all have families that include gay
people. The irony is that Hollywood, while patting itself on the back
for all it's liberal better-than-the-rest-of-the-country sentiment
really is more provincial on the subject than anywhere else in the
country.
I think that's true of urban areas, but there's lots of Southern
states where a gay couple wouldn fear for their lives.
Kris
Just spent a few months down thar...
Kris -
You know this because you live in which Southern State? Or is that
just what you think Southerners are like. Because I have to tell you,
in my 20 years living in Georgia, and traveling for work through
Alabama, South and North Carolina, Tenn, and Mississippi on a very
regular basis, I have not seen it. Not once. Carry yourself with
dignity, earn people's respect, and they don't care about who you
sleep with.
Southerners are just as smart and accepting as anyone else. They have
gay relatives. They have gay neighbors. They have gay coworkers. I
wish people who know nothing about this part of the country would stop
thinking we're as slow as the people in Hollywood.
I don't think the people in Hollywood are a bit slow. They're thinking of
Peoria. Until a huge star can come out of the closet and still earn $20
million a film for love scenes with a woman, they'll keep people in the
closet. And you know what, it doesn't matter.

I just spent 4 months in some of the South's larger cities. Just like
years ago when I spent weeks at a certain Air Force Base, I saw people be
wonderfully polite to each other, then call them "nigger"
or "fag" behind their back......just barely after they'd left. It was
quite sad, since I'm actually from a very gay-friendly area (which most
people would be shocked to learn!) Since I'm neither gay nor black, I
heard such epithets applied to others.....sometimes with "stupid liberal"
preceding them. Since they assumed my politics based on where they knew I
was from, it was always fun to inform them that I didn't fit that particular
mold.....and it shut up quite a few people when I confronted them.

Kris
k***@ugcorp.com
2007-08-18 02:14:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kris Baker
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
Post by Kris Baker
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
The irony is most of America doesn't care about who's gay, who sleeps
with whom, or who is what. We all live in communities where gays live
side by side with straights. We all have families that include gay
people. The irony is that Hollywood, while patting itself on the back
for all it's liberal better-than-the-rest-of-the-country sentiment
really is more provincial on the subject than anywhere else in the
country.
I think that's true of urban areas, but there's lots of Southern
states where a gay couple wouldn fear for their lives.
Kris
Just spent a few months down thar...
Kris -
You know this because you live in which Southern State? Or is that
just what you think Southerners are like. Because I have to tell you,
in my 20 years living in Georgia, and traveling for work through
Alabama, South and North Carolina, Tenn, and Mississippi on a very
regular basis, I have not seen it. Not once. Carry yourself with
dignity, earn people's respect, and they don't care about who you
sleep with.
Southerners are just as smart and accepting as anyone else. They have
gay relatives. They have gay neighbors. They have gay coworkers. I
wish people who know nothing about this part of the country would stop
thinking we're as slow as the people in Hollywood.
I don't think the people in Hollywood are a bit slow. They're thinking of
Peoria. Until a huge star can come out of the closet and still earn $20
million a film for love scenes with a woman, they'll keep people in the
closet. And you know what, it doesn't matter.
I just spent 4 months in some of the South's larger cities. Just like
years ago when I spent weeks at a certain Air Force Base, I saw people be
wonderfully polite to each other, then call them "nigger"
or "fag" behind their back......just barely after they'd left. It was
quite sad, since I'm actually from a very gay-friendly area (which most
people would be shocked to learn!) Since I'm neither gay nor black, I
heard such epithets applied to others.....sometimes with "stupid liberal"
preceding them. Since they assumed my politics based on where they knew I
was from, it was always fun to inform them that I didn't fit that particular
mold.....and it shut up quite a few people when I confronted them.
Kris- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Wow. You went from knowing about people in the South to now knowing
about people in Peoria. They aren't thinking of the people in Peoria.
They are thinking of what they think people in Peoria think. But
people in Hollywood are so condescending about other people that they
don't realize that people in Peoria don't care.

I will grant you the military is much like Hollywood. The rank-and-
file mostly doesn't care about gays, but the powers-that-be still
think like Hollywood - that people will care.

Yes, there are a few bigots everywhere. And you may have encountered
some of them in the South. (Although I'm confused as to whether you
were tainted by something that happened on an Air Force base years
ago, in Peoria, or the South.) But even those people didn't do
anything more than utter a few unkind words. Again, there are gay
people in every neighborhood, every family, and every workplace.

In a couple generations, people will look back at our times and think
people who talked about this as an issue were making a big fuss about
nothing. Some of us choose to live that way already.
Witchy Way
2007-08-19 07:34:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<<I think that's true of urban areas, but there's lots of Southern
states where a gay couple wouldn fear for their lives.
Kris

Just spent a few months down thar...
Kris -

---------->

You know this because you live in which Southern State? Or is that just
what you think Southerners are like. Because I have to tell you, in my
20 years living in Georgia, and traveling for work through Alabama,
South and North Carolina, Tenn, and Mississippi on a very regular basis,
I have not seen it. Not once. Carry yourself with dignity, earn people's
respect, and they don't care about who you sleep with.

Southerners are just as smart and accepting as anyone else. They have
gay relatives. They have gay neighbors. They have gay coworkers. I wish
people who know nothing about this part of the country would stop
thinking we're as slow as the people in Hollywood.
I don't think the people in Hollywood are a bit slow. They're thinking
of Peoria. =A0 Until a huge star can come out of the closet and still
earn $20 million a film for love scenes with a woman, they'll keep
people in the closet. =A0 And you know what, it doesn't matter.

-------------->

I just spent 4 months in some of the South's larger cities. =A0 Just
like years ago when I spent weeks at a certain Air Force Base, I saw
people be wonderfully polite to each other, then call them "nigger" or
"fag" behind their back......just barely after they'd left. =A0 It was
quite sad, since I'm actually from a very gay-friendly area (which most
people would be shocked to learn!) =A0 Since I'm neither gay nor black,
I heard such epithets applied to others.....sometimes with "stupid
liberal" preceding them. =A0 Since they assumed my politics based on
where they knew I was from, it was always fun to inform them that I
didn't fit that particular mold.....and it shut up quite a few people
when I confronted them.
Kris>>

kris is absolutely right.

and how do i know this? i lived in missouri for 4 years where they
still talk about "our slaves who were freed live in the bootheel".
andwhere a woman with a masters degree told me, whispered in back of her
hand like they love to do...
"i wondered why so many blacks down in the bootheel had my last name.
when i was doing a geneology search i found out we out (backhand
whisper) that my family owned slaves! we must have been very good to
them. they kept or last name".

thats just one story. one.

_nothing_ changed in the south. ot one thing...except they took the
"coloreds around back" signs down

the south is filled with ignorant backward morons still fighting the
civil war. wanna see confederate flags...go south!

if you really want to know what the real south is like try talking to
some black people.

in missouri they know not to be in bollnger county after dark.

you can sit there and defend the south all day but in the end, if yo
look deep you will see nothing changed under the surface. they just hide
it better

and if you arent "christian" don't even try to make friends. and i dont
mean catholic. they like you pentacostal or baptist.

after 4 yers i oved back up to illinois where i can be pagan without
hding my books in my own apartment, be liberal and not have to defend
it.

during one election people were flocking to the polls to vote against
gay marriage and abortion. they love george bush and they love the war.

as for mssissippi...i have heard from blacks here in illinois that when
_they_go to mississippi they are not accepted by the blacks even because
they are "northerners"!

i dont know what southerners you talk to. but i'm guessing its no one
rural. and by the way...natives of saint louis whose families go back to
the time of lynchings on the court house steps arent much better. they
hate "niggers".

go to the representaves lounge in the state capitol bldg in jefferson
city. you can view some really iteresting murals from floor to ceiling
depicting the lynchings and slaves being sold. oh yeah. that southern
pride never dies.

i never met so many demented people in my life. i still think its the
inbreeding. missouri has higher than the national average of mental
illness.

witchy
proudly living in the land of Lincoln in Springfield Illinois where he
is buried.
Deborah
2007-08-19 08:42:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Witchy Way
kris is absolutely right.
and how do i know this? i lived in missouri for 4 years where they
still talk about "our slaves who were freed live in the bootheel".
andwhere a woman with a masters degree told me, whispered in back of her
hand like they love to do...
"i wondered why so many blacks down in the bootheel had my last name.
when i was doing a geneology search i found out we out (backhand
whisper) that my family owned slaves! we must have been very good to
them. they kept or last name".
thats just one story. one.
_nothing_ changed in the south. ot one thing...except they took the
"coloreds around back" signs down
the south is filled with ignorant backward morons still fighting the
civil war. wanna see confederate flags...go south!
if you really want to know what the real south is like try talking to
some black people.
in missouri they know not to be in bollnger county after dark.
you can sit there and defend the south all day but in the end, if yo
look deep you will see nothing changed under the surface. they just hide
it better
and if you arent "christian" don't even try to make friends. and i dont
mean catholic. they like you pentacostal or baptist.
after 4 yers i oved back up to illinois where i can be pagan without
hding my books in my own apartment, be liberal and not have to defend
it.
during one election people were flocking to the polls to vote against
gay marriage and abortion. they love george bush and they love the war.
as for mssissippi...i have heard from blacks here in illinois that when
_they_go to mississippi they are not accepted by the blacks even because
they are "northerners"!
i dont know what southerners you talk to. but i'm guessing its no one
rural. and by the way...natives of saint louis whose families go back to
the time of lynchings on the court house steps arent much better. they
hate "niggers".
go to the representaves lounge in the state capitol bldg in jefferson
city. you can view some really iteresting murals from floor to ceiling
depicting the lynchings and slaves being sold. oh yeah. that southern
pride never dies.
i never met so many demented people in my life. i still think its the
inbreeding. missouri has higher than the national average of mental
illness.
witchy
proudly living in the land of Lincoln in Springfield Illinois where he
is buried.
I should probably stay out of this, because it was a long time ago.
Very late '60s. But I went to a Quaker boarding school in NC for
grade 8. It was 25 miles out of Burnsville which was 25 miles out of
Ashville. IOW, Ashville was the nearest big city, and we weren't even
anywhere near the nearest small town. We were in a rural area. Most
of the students were white. But we had one black student from
Detroit, and when we went on outings that involved stopping in at a
restaurant for a meal, our black student was prohibited from entering.
Even back then it blew all of our minds, because we weren't from the
south and we didn't see things as rural people there did. I'll have
to admit, it was educational...

I'm sure things have changed on the surface by now. I'm sure a black
would not get refused entry to a restaurant in rural NC, but I'm not
so sure that the underlying attitude has changed in one generation.

Deborah
Wyle Coyote
2007-08-19 21:11:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Deborah
Post by Witchy Way
kris is absolutely right.
and how do i know this? i lived in missouri for 4 years where they
still talk about "our slaves who were freed live in the bootheel".
andwhere a woman with a masters degree told me, whispered in back of her
hand like they love to do...
"i wondered why so many blacks down in the bootheel had my last name.
when i was doing a geneology search i found out we out (backhand
whisper) that my family owned slaves! we must have been very good to
them. they kept or last name".
thats just one story. one.
_nothing_ changed in the south. ot one thing...except they took the
"coloreds around back" signs down
the south is filled with ignorant backward morons still fighting the
civil war. wanna see confederate flags...go south!
if you really want to know what the real south is like try talking to
some black people.
in missouri they know not to be in bollnger county after dark.
you can sit there and defend the south all day but in the end, if yo
look deep you will see nothing changed under the surface. they just hide
it better
and if you arent "christian" don't even try to make friends. and i dont
mean catholic. they like you pentacostal or baptist.
after 4 yers i oved back up to illinois where i can be pagan without
hding my books in my own apartment, be liberal and not have to defend
it.
during one election people were flocking to the polls to vote against
gay marriage and abortion. they love george bush and they love the war.
as for mssissippi...i have heard from blacks here in illinois that when
_they_go to mississippi they are not accepted by the blacks even because
they are "northerners"!
i dont know what southerners you talk to. but i'm guessing its no one
rural. and by the way...natives of saint louis whose families go back to
the time of lynchings on the court house steps arent much better. they
hate "niggers".
go to the representaves lounge in the state capitol bldg in jefferson
city. you can view some really iteresting murals from floor to ceiling
depicting the lynchings and slaves being sold. oh yeah. that southern
pride never dies.
i never met so many demented people in my life. i still think its the
inbreeding. missouri has higher than the national average of mental
illness.
witchy
proudly living in the land of Lincoln in Springfield Illinois where he
is buried.
I should probably stay out of this, because it was a long time ago.
Very late '60s. But I went to a Quaker boarding school in NC for
grade 8. It was 25 miles out of Burnsville which was 25 miles out of
Ashville. IOW, Ashville was the nearest big city, and we weren't even
anywhere near the nearest small town. We were in a rural area. Most
of the students were white. But we had one black student from
Detroit, and when we went on outings that involved stopping in at a
restaurant for a meal, our black student was prohibited from entering.
Even back then it blew all of our minds, because we weren't from the
south and we didn't see things as rural people there did. I'll have
to admit, it was educational...
I'm sure things have changed on the surface by now. I'm sure a black
would not get refused entry to a restaurant in rural NC, but I'm not
so sure that the underlying attitude has changed in one generation.
Deborah
I've had a chance to do work in the south and I will say, althought it
isn't like the black and white videos of MLK marches, it has far to
go. It's more racist than Europe and other parts of the country like
Chicago, New Jersey, Washington, etc. Why would anyone non-white want
to move/live there? It has a bad name and who has the time to waste
thier lives trying to change it? Go somewhere that's ready
made...where the jobs been done already and has a proven track record!
Mr. Potato Head
2007-08-19 15:07:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Witchy Way
<<I think that's true of urban areas, but there's lots of Southern
states where a gay couple wouldn fear for their lives.
Kris
Just spent a few months down thar...
Kris -
---------->
You know this because you live in which Southern State? Or is that just
what you think Southerners are like. Because I have to tell you, in my
20 years living in Georgia, and traveling for work through Alabama,
South and North Carolina, Tenn, and Mississippi on a very regular basis,
I have not seen it. Not once. Carry yourself with dignity, earn people's
respect, and they don't care about who you sleep with.
Southerners are just as smart and accepting as anyone else. They have
gay relatives. They have gay neighbors. They have gay coworkers. I wish
people who know nothing about this part of the country would stop
thinking we're as slow as the people in Hollywood.
I don't think the people in Hollywood are a bit slow. They're thinking
of Peoria. Until a huge star can come out of the closet and still
earn $20 million a film for love scenes with a woman, they'll keep
people in the closet. And you know what, it doesn't matter.
-------------->
I just spent 4 months in some of the South's larger cities. Just
like years ago when I spent weeks at a certain Air Force Base, I saw
people be wonderfully polite to each other, then call them "nigger" or
"fag" behind their back......just barely after they'd left. It was
quite sad, since I'm actually from a very gay-friendly area (which most
people would be shocked to learn!) Since I'm neither gay nor black,
I heard such epithets applied to others.....sometimes with "stupid
liberal" preceding them. Since they assumed my politics based on
where they knew I was from, it was always fun to inform them that I
didn't fit that particular mold.....and it shut up quite a few people
when I confronted them.
Kris>>
kris is absolutely right.
and how do i know this? i lived in missouri for 4 years where they
still talk about "our slaves who were freed live in the bootheel".
andwhere a woman with a masters degree told me, whispered in back of her
hand like they love to do...
"i wondered why so many blacks down in the bootheel had my last name.
when i was doing a geneology search i found out we out (backhand
whisper) that my family owned slaves! we must have been very good to
them. they kept or last name".
thats just one story. one.
_nothing_ changed in the south. ot one thing...except they took the
"coloreds around back" signs down
the south is filled with ignorant backward morons still fighting the
civil war. wanna see confederate flags...go south!
if you really want to know what the real south is like try talking to
some black people.
in missouri they know not to be in bollnger county after dark.
you can sit there and defend the south all day but in the end, if yo
look deep you will see nothing changed under the surface. they just hide
it better
and if you arent "christian" don't even try to make friends. and i dont
mean catholic. they like you pentacostal or baptist.
after 4 yers i oved back up to illinois where i can be pagan without
hding my books in my own apartment, be liberal and not have to defend
it.
during one election people were flocking to the polls to vote against
gay marriage and abortion. they love george bush and they love the war.
as for mssissippi...i have heard from blacks here in illinois that when
_they_go to mississippi they are not accepted by the blacks even because
they are "northerners"!
i dont know what southerners you talk to. but i'm guessing its no one
rural. and by the way...natives of saint louis whose families go back to
the time of lynchings on the court house steps arent much better. they
hate "niggers".
go to the representaves lounge in the state capitol bldg in jefferson
city. you can view some really iteresting murals from floor to ceiling
depicting the lynchings and slaves being sold. oh yeah. that southern
pride never dies.
i never met so many demented people in my life. i still think its the
inbreeding. missouri has higher than the national average of mental
illness.
witchy
proudly living in the land of Lincoln in Springfield Illinois where he
is buried.
Move on. In a few years, you'll be dead, everyone will be. Look for
the new.
Gregory Morrow
2007-08-19 21:25:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Witchy Way
i lived in missouri for 4 years where they
still talk about "our slaves who were freed live in the bootheel".
andwhere a woman with a masters degree told me, whispered in back of her
hand like they love to do...
_nothing_ changed in the south. ot one thing...except they took the
"coloreds around back" signs down
the south is filled with ignorant backward morons still fighting the
civil war. wanna see confederate flags...go south!
if you really want to know what the real south is like try talking to
some black people.
in missouri they know not to be in bollnger county after dark.
you can sit there and defend the south all day but in the end, if yo
look deep you will see nothing changed under the surface. they just hide
it better
and if you arent "christian" don't even try to make friends. and i dont
mean catholic. they like you pentacostal or baptist.
after 4 yers i oved back up to illinois where i can be pagan without
hding my books in my own apartment, be liberal and not have to defend
it.
during one election people were flocking to the polls to vote against
gay marriage and abortion. they love george bush and they love the war.
as for mssissippi...i have heard from blacks here in illinois that when
_they_go to mississippi they are not accepted by the blacks even because
they are "northerners"!
i dont know what southerners you talk to. but i'm guessing its no one
rural. and by the way...natives of saint louis whose families go back to
the time of lynchings on the court house steps arent much better. they
hate "niggers".
go to the representaves lounge in the state capitol bldg in jefferson
city. you can view some really iteresting murals from floor to ceiling
depicting the lynchings and slaves being sold. oh yeah. that southern
pride never dies.
i never met so many demented people in my life. i still think its the
inbreeding. missouri has higher than the national average of mental
illness.
Heck, even the GAY bars down in Missouri are like something out of
_Deliverance_, and I'm tawkin' about St. Louis...can't imagine what
it's like out in the hinterlands...!!!

I've spent a fair amount of time in St. Louis. Anyone half - way
intelligent does their best to get out of that place...as one St.
Louisian - born friend (who lives here in Chicago) sez so well: "St.
Louis is a GREAT place to leave"...

I knew lotsa gay gays there at one time, even though they were pretty
well - educated, good jobs, nice looking, etc., ye GAWDS they pretty
much all carried on like low - life white trailor trash, e.g. sleeping
around, spawning even MORE kids with their ex - wives and girlfriends,
brawling in bars, getting arrested all the time, just being plain
stupid with their gay hillybilly drama. I have to agree with you
about the Missouri "inbred" thang...lol.

"Class, to them, is a double - wide..."

;-D


And down in that Mizzoura boothill IS the "Deep South", for sure, it's
not far removed from the plantation days down there...the rest of
Missouri is bad enough, but honestly.


--
Best
Greg
subscriber1997
2007-08-20 04:28:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gregory Morrow
Post by Witchy Way
i lived in missouri for 4 years where they
still talk about "our slaves who were freed live in the bootheel".
andwhere a woman with a masters degree told me, whispered in back of her
hand like they love to do...
_nothing_ changed in the south. ot one thing...except they took the
"coloreds around back" signs down
the south is filled with ignorant backward morons still fighting the
civil war. wanna see confederate flags...go south!
if you really want to know what the real south is like try talking to
some black people.
in missouri they know not to be in bollnger county after dark.
you can sit there and defend the south all day but in the end, if yo
look deep you will see nothing changed under the surface. they just hide
it better
and if you arent "christian" don't even try to make friends. and i dont
mean catholic. they like you pentacostal or baptist.
after 4 yers i oved back up to illinois where i can be pagan without
hding my books in my own apartment, be liberal and not have to defend
it.
during one election people were flocking to the polls to vote against
gay marriage and abortion. they love george bush and they love the war.
as for mssissippi...i have heard from blacks here in illinois that when
_they_go to mississippi they are not accepted by the blacks even because
they are "northerners"!
i dont know what southerners you talk to. but i'm guessing its no one
rural. and by the way...natives of saint louis whose families go back to
the time of lynchings on the court house steps arent much better. they
hate "niggers".
go to the representaves lounge in the state capitol bldg in jefferson
city. you can view some really iteresting murals from floor to ceiling
depicting the lynchings and slaves being sold. oh yeah. that southern
pride never dies.
i never met so many demented people in my life. i still think its the
inbreeding. missouri has higher than the national average of mental
illness.
Heck, even the GAY bars down in Missouri are like something out of
_Deliverance_, and I'm tawkin' about St. Louis...can't imagine what
it's like out in the hinterlands...!!!
I've spent a fair amount of time in St. Louis. Anyone half - way
intelligent does their best to get out of that place...as one St.
Louisian - born friend (who lives here in Chicago) sez so well: "St.
Louis is a GREAT place to leave"...
I knew lotsa gay gays there at one time, even though they were pretty
well - educated, good jobs, nice looking, etc., ye GAWDS they pretty
much all carried on like low - life white trailor trash, e.g. sleeping
around, spawning even MORE kids with their ex - wives and girlfriends,
brawling in bars, getting arrested all the time, just being plain
stupid with their gay hillybilly drama. I have to agree with you
about the Missouri "inbred" thang...lol.
"Class, to them, is a double - wide..."
;-D
And down in that Mizzoura boothill IS the "Deep South", for sure, it's
not far removed from the plantation days down there...the rest of
Missouri is bad enough, but honestly.
--
Best
Greg
================


move Chester move
a***@gmail.com
2007-08-21 12:28:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Witchy Way
<<I think that's true of urban areas, but there's lots of Southern
states where a gay couple wouldn fear for their lives.
Kris
Just spent a few months down thar...
Kris -
---------->
You know this because you live in which Southern State? Or is that just
what you think Southerners are like. Because I have to tell you, in my
20 years living in Georgia, and traveling for work through Alabama,
South and North Carolina, Tenn, and Mississippi on a very regular basis,
I have not seen it. Not once. Carry yourself with dignity, earn people's
respect, and they don't care about who you sleep with.
Southerners are just as smart and accepting as anyone else. They have
gay relatives. They have gay neighbors. They have gay coworkers. I wish
people who know nothing about this part of the country would stop
thinking we're as slow as the people in Hollywood.
I don't think the people in Hollywood are a bit slow. They're thinking
of Peoria. Until a huge star can come out of the closet and still
earn $20 million a film for love scenes with a woman, they'll keep
people in the closet. And you know what, it doesn't matter.
-------------->
I just spent 4 months in some of the South's larger cities. Just
like years ago when I spent weeks at a certain Air Force Base, I saw
people be wonderfully polite to each other, then call them "nigger" or
"fag" behind their back......just barely after they'd left. It was
quite sad, since I'm actually from a very gay-friendly area (which most
people would be shocked to learn!) Since I'm neither gay nor black,
I heard such epithets applied to others.....sometimes with "stupid
liberal" preceding them. Since they assumed my politics based on
where they knew I was from, it was always fun to inform them that I
didn't fit that particular mold.....and it shut up quite a few people
when I confronted them.
Kris>>
kris is absolutely right.
and how do i know this? i lived in missouri for 4 years where they
still talk about "our slaves who were freed live in the bootheel".
andwhere a woman with a masters degree told me, whispered in back of her
hand like they love to do...
"i wondered why so many blacks down in the bootheel had my last name.
when i was doing a geneology search i found out we out (backhand
whisper) that my family owned slaves! we must have been very good to
them. they kept or last name".
thats just one story. one.
_nothing_ changed in the south. ot one thing...except they took the
"coloreds around back" signs down
the south is filled with ignorant backward morons still fighting the
civil war. wanna see confederate flags...go south!
if you really want to know what the real south is like try talking to
some black people.
in missouri they know not to be in bollnger county after dark.
you can sit there and defend the south all day but in the end, if yo
look deep you will see nothing changed under the surface. they just hide
it better
and if you arent "christian" don't even try to make friends. and i dont
mean catholic. they like you pentacostal or baptist.
after 4 yers i oved back up to illinois where i can be pagan without
hding my books in my own apartment, be liberal and not have to defend
it.
during one election people were flocking to the polls to vote against
gay marriage and abortion. they love george bush and they love the war.
as for mssissippi...i have heard from blacks here in illinois that when
_they_go to mississippi they are not accepted by the blacks even because
they are "northerners"!
i dont know what southerners you talk to. but i'm guessing its no one
rural. and by the way...natives of saint louis whose families go back to
the time of lynchings on the court house steps arent much better. they
hate "niggers".
go to the representaves lounge in the state capitol bldg in jefferson
city. you can view some really iteresting murals from floor to ceiling
depicting the lynchings and slaves being sold. oh yeah. that southern
pride never dies.
i never met so many demented people in my life. i still think its the
inbreeding. missouri has higher than the national average of mental
illness.
witchy
proudly living in the land of Lincoln in Springfield Illinois where he
is buried.
I live in Atlanta. On Sundays I volunteer leaving at about 10 a.m.,
I see plenty of gay men holding hands after they have attended
church. No big deal. There were out gays, at my husband's last firm,
that attended firm parties with their partners and again no big
deal. He recently hung his own shingle and has actively tried
recruiting new attorney's regardless of orientation or degree of
Outness (as if that mattered.) We attend CLE's, all attorneys from
the Altanta area, and once again gay men attend with their partners or
alone to meet new "friends." Still, no big deal. Bigotry and hatred
is everywhere. Perhaps the south is more vocal about differences, but
silent hatred is much harder to change.

My daughter's dental assistant is actively and outspokenly Wiccan. I
see many, many bumper stickers supporting the Mother Goddess. I am
devotely agnostic.

I have lived in Missouri and while the weather is hell, I found the
people kind while in Denver I overheard horrific anti-semintic
remarks. That doesn't make Denver MORE racist than Missouri but I see
how that could flavor someone's perspective. As for me, I am
responsible for training my children and exposing them to people
different from themselves. I find that the best method for tolerance
training.
Big J
2007-08-18 01:59:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
Post by Kris Baker
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
The irony is most of America doesn't care about who's gay, who sleeps
with whom, or who is what. We all live in communities where gays live
side by side with straights. We all have families that include gay
people. The irony is that Hollywood, while patting itself on the back
for all it's liberal better-than-the-rest-of-the-country sentiment
really is more provincial on the subject than anywhere else in the
country.
I think that's true of urban areas, but there's lots of Southern
states where a gay couple wouldn fear for their lives.
Kris
Just spent a few months down thar...
Kris -
You know this because you live in which Southern State? Or is that
just what you think Southerners are like. Because I have to tell you,
in my 20 years living in Georgia, and traveling for work through
Alabama, South and North Carolina, Tenn, and Mississippi on a very
regular basis, I have not seen it. Not once. Carry yourself with
dignity, earn people's respect, and they don't care about who you
sleep with.
Southerners are just as smart and accepting as anyone else. They have
gay relatives. They have gay neighbors. They have gay coworkers. I
wish people who know nothing about this part of the country would stop
thinking we're as slow as the people in Hollywood.
I lived in the South for 40 years. That was not my experience.

They *do* care about who you sleep with. Especially all the fundy faith
freaks. They enact laws to deny rights to gay people. They fight hate crime
laws. They vote for DOMA-type laws.

It's not about thinking Southerners are *slow*. It's about realizing that
much of those states are mired in a lot of hate that finds expression in
their laws and in their churches.

Big J

-----

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k***@ugcorp.com
2007-08-18 02:20:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I'll stand by my original statement. For all it's grandstanding,
Hollywood is the most hypocritical when it comes to the gay issue. The
only other industries I can think of that require it's workers to
remain in the closet are the military and Christain organizations.
Big J
2007-08-18 03:40:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
I'll stand by my original statement. For all it's grandstanding,
Hollywood is the most hypocritical when it comes to the gay issue. The
only other industries I can think of that require it's workers to
remain in the closet are the military and Christain organizations.
Stand by your statement all you want. But facts don't support it.

Big J

-----

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Red
2007-08-18 02:30:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
Post by Kris Baker
Post by k***@ugcorp.com
The irony is most of America doesn't care about who's gay, who sleeps
with whom, or who is what. We all live in communities where gays live
side by side with straights. We all have families that include gay
people. The irony is that Hollywood, while patting itself on the back
for all it's liberal better-than-the-rest-of-the-country sentiment
really is more provincial on the subject than anywhere else in the
country.
I think that's true of urban areas, but there's lots of Southern
states where a gay couple wouldn fear for their lives.
Kris
Just spent a few months down thar...
Kris -
You know this because you live in which Southern State? Or is that
just what you think Southerners are like. Because I have to tell you,
in my 20 years living in Georgia, and traveling for work through
Alabama, South and North Carolina, Tenn, and Mississippi on a very
regular basis, I have not seen it. Not once. Carry yourself with
dignity, earn people's respect, and they don't care about who you
sleep with.
Southerners are just as smart and accepting as anyone else. They have
gay relatives. They have gay neighbors. They have gay coworkers. I
wish people who know nothing about this part of the country would stop
thinking we're as slow as the people in Hollywood.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
How dare you question Kris the Mormon. She knows all!
Kyle
2007-08-18 18:09:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wyle Coyote
Why should anyone else stand up for the rights of gays, when gays
won't even stand up for themselves. If it was so right, they should
put thier lives and reputations on the line. However, something tells
me deep down inside many don't feel it's right. In the 60's blacks
and whites were out on the frontline in full force and in mass!
No comparison.
It has nothing to do with right or wrong. It has more to do with fear
of non-acceptance.
l***@gmail.com
2007-08-22 01:51:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by edonline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/people_nm/griffin_dc
Merv Griffin died a closeted homosexual
By Ray RichmondThu Aug 16, 11:49 PM ET
Merv Griffin was gay.
Why should that be so uncomfortable to read? Why is it so difficult to
write? Why are we still so jittery even about raising the issue in
purportedly liberal-minded Hollywood, in 2007?
Griffin, who died of prostate cancer Sunday at 82, stayed in the closet
throughout his life. Perhaps he figured it was preferable to remain the
object of gossip rather than live openly as "one of them."
But how tremendously sad it is that a man of Merv's renown, of his
gregarious nature and social dexterity, would feel compelled to endure such
a stealthy double life even as the gay community's clout, and its levels of
acceptance and equality, rose steadily from the ashes of ignorance.
What a powerful message Griffin might have sent had he squired his male
companions around town rather than Eva Gabor, his longtime good friend and
platonic public pal. Imagine the amount of good Merv could have done as a
well-respected, hugely successful, beloved and uncloseted gay man in
embodying a positive image.
I had more than a passing acquaintance with him, having worked on "The Merv
Griffin Show" as a talent coordinator/segment producer in 1985-86 as the
show was winding down. Around the office, Merv's being gay was understood
but rarely discussed (and certainly never with him). We knew nothing of his
relationships because he guarded his privacy fiercely, and we didn't pry.
Merv's secret gay life was widely known throughout showbiz culture, if not
the wider America. It gained traction in 1991 when he was targeted in a pair
of lawsuits: by "Dance Fever" host Denny Terrio, alleging sexual harassment;
and by assistant Brent Plott seeking $200 million in palimony. Both
ultimately were dismissed.
Over the past 16 years of his life, however, Griffin deflected the sexuality
questions with a quip, determining that his private life remained nobody's
business. He certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to
himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind
throughout his adult life. Then again, Merv carved his niche in the
entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't OK, when disclosure was
unthinkable and the allegation alone could deep-six one's career.
If you're Griffin, why would you think a judgmental culture would be any
more tolerant as you grew into middle and old age? Even in the capital of
entertainment -- in a business where homosexuality isn't exactly a rare
phenomenon -- it's still spoken of in hushed tones or, more often, not at
all. And Merv's brush with tabloid scandal no doubt only drove him further
into the closet.
If Merv Griffin was a homosexual, I'm glad he kept it to himself.
Maybe he had enough morallity in him to not be "proud" of having
perverted sexual feelings.
Maybe he was trying to not to have those thoughts.

I'm so sick of homosexuality being promoted as normal...it isn't.
Don't tell me a man sodomizing another man is normal, because it
isn't. Common sense should tell you it's not. Look how men and women
"fit" togther physically. That's not an accident, it's by design.
A penis doesn't belong in a hairy, smelly butt hole of another man.
The fact that someone has to point out something so obvious shows
how low the culture ha sunk.
Post by edonline
While it would seem everything has changed today, little actually has. You
can count on the fingers of one hand, or at most two, the number of
high-powered stars, executives and public figures who have come out. Those
who don't can't really be faulted, as rarely do honesty and full disclosure
prove a boon to one's showbiz livelihood.
Nonetheless, the elephant that was his sexual orientation never really
stopped following Griffin from room to room. He could duck it for a while,
but it would always find him. It's disheartening that Merv had to die to
shake it for good.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
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